My amazing conversation with my Muslim Arab friend
In my line of work I get to meet and work with many interesting people from around the world. A few years ago I hired a freelancer from the small island nation of Cyprus to work on a few of my projects. He is quite an energetic fellow in his mid twenties, married and with a young child. Sometimes I would ask him to help me with something, and sometimes I would do him a favor or two. Every now and then he would contact me and we would just talk about business and about life in our respective countries. We would never get into either politics, nationalism or religion. I always assumed him to be an Eastern Orthodox Christian from Cyprus (the majority of that island’s inhabitants). Until recently, that is. Here’s my conversation with Ahmed (not his real name) from two days ago (edited to be more readable):
Ahmed: Is your wife an American and were you born in the States?
Me: No, we are both from Ukraine – but our kids are “Americans.”
Ahmed: Me and my wife have been to Ukraine and my cousin is in Kiev Ukraine right now, studying.
Me: Really, you have been there?! What’s your cousin studying for?
Ahmed: Yes, we have. He’s studying to be a doctor.
Me: I guess that’s because Cyprus doesn’t have too many universities of its own, right?
Ahmed: No, my cousin is Lebanese and my own origin is Lebanese.
Me: Christian Lebanese, right?
Ahmed: Hahaha, no, I’m a Muslim!
Me: Well, I am Jewish! No kidding… (I was a bit startled, and awaited his reaction to this “news”).
Ahmed: Peace, I am from north Lebanon. Have you heard of Tripoli? (Note: this is a city in Lebanon, not the capital of Libya by the same name).
Me: Yes, I have.
Ahmed: I have always felt you are a Jew. This is my third time. (Note: the third time that he has had a conversation with a Jew.)
Me: How did you “feel” that?
Ahmed: I don’t know how or why! I just feel it. I was once in Nigeria with my uncles (they have construction company there), I met some Jews. I just felt they were (even before I met talked to them). I met some lovely Jews in Nigeria, from Israel.
Me: Hey, we are cousins! You are Arab, right?
Ahmed: My grandfather says we are not, but my father says we are Arabs (Note: Lebanon was home to various people groups who were all arabized at some point). Well, we speak Arabic, but Lebanon is the only country that is named as Republic of Lebanon (meaning that it doesn’t have “Arab” in its name like every other Arab country).
Me: Did you know that some researchers claim that many in Lebanon are actually Jews that Romans didn’t kick out? There was some genetic testing done. So, my friend, we may be more related than you thought!
Ahmed: Yes, it’s true, I have read something about that. They made a lot of testing.
Ahmed: Are there a lot of Jews in Ukraine?
Me: There were a lot of Jews – but most have gone to Israel or U.S. Now there are mostly some old folks who didn’t want to (or couldn’t) leave.
Ahmed: I know that Israel is supporting those who want to leave to Israel. Why did not you go there? I see it on pictures only, it’s amazing!
Me: We almost did, but I had relatives in U.S. going back to 1900′s. We were able to come as Jewish refugees. In Israel I would have had to go to army, and my parents were afraid (plus, American life is easier)
Ahmed: I see. But that is your country! If it was me I would go…
Me: You are right – I’ve been there (visiting my family) – may be some day I’ll move and then you can visit me:). (I am feeling a little guilty at this point – a Muslim Arab is making me feel guilty about not living in Israel!!!!)
Ahmed: Jews are successful – I always think of how they made Israel, in no time. All the wars that were and are there and Israel today is really amazing. I watch videos and look at photos (of Israel) because I am very curious. And look at Arabs….hell.
Me: I am glad that you feel that way, even though you are a Muslim:) People are people.
Ahmed: I don’t know why… Listen, when I was a child or say 15 years old, I have had a damn bad idea about Israel and Jews. I was thinking Israel is really taking our lands, killing Palestinians, [they are] war criminals, etc… When I grew up I wanted to see what is the “Jew”, what kind of religion. They (Arab propaganda) make it like hell. Oh no, I want see. I read some books. I found out it is so close to our way of worshiping, it is so close, very very very close, and too far away from Christians! And then I wanted to know about land issues. I say now: oh yeah, we got 50 Arab countries, they (Jews) got none, just that one. So let them live in peace and give them more! I was watching the Aljazeera channel and one day I wanted to change. I learned a lot when I discovered so much. Yes believe me, its so true. I have always been interested in a Jew and in Israel – those two (things). I learned lot – I got to a point were I say Jews are the most hurt people on earth. From the beginning and they are getting hurt.
Me: Well, you have one Jew friend here. You’re very opened minded, that’s great. Yes, I went through quite a bit growing up in Ukraine.
Ahmed: Oh man, when I learned about the Jew religion I was so surprised – same things forbidden in Islam are forbidden in Jew. Also, the marriage life , the prayer… and those things are so close.
Me: Yes, very close – after all, we have the same father, Avraham!
Ahmed: I’m telling you – a Jew is way too far from Christianity! And makes me feel sad of how much Jews and Muslims are far from each other nowadays and how close Christians are to Jews. Makes me enjoy this relationship. I have discovered that Jew military does not kill, but the Arab fighters are using civilians to hide behind. From that I knew that I was wrong when I was a child. I told you something before - I met like 7 Jews in my life - each time I met someone I felt he was a Jew.
Me: May be you are one yourself – you seem to have a “Jew-dar” (Jewish radar that can spot Jews)!
Ahmed: Hahaha… who knows… Listen… Arabs are really sweet and very welcoming. But we have a very big problem. The sheiks (mullahs), the religion men, they know nothing about Jew religion! I have never seen them teaching – they don’t know anything!
Me: It’s a sibling rivalry – each brother wants to be the favorite son.
Ahmed: True – I hope they make peace.
Me: One day, I believe, when Messiah comes, Jews and Arabs will be brothers again.
Ahmed: So that Lebanese can visit Israel! It was cool to know that you are a Jew – we talk!
Me: And that you are a Muslim / Arab…
Fabulous conversation. Reminds me of some of the things Yossi Halevi wrote in his book At the Entrance to the Garden of Eden about how close Jews and Muslims are in culture and faith…and how separated Judaism is from Christianity along the same axis.
James, what is even sadder and more telling is that while both groups persecuted or discriminated against Jews to varying degrees, generally speaking Jews fared far better under Muslims than they ever did under Christians, until 60 or so years ago (when Israel was re-founded).
Yeah, I know. I’ve been thinking about that lately.
Interesting conversation. I have often wondered if we are headed for a time when the Islamic faith treats Jews kindly, as much of Christianity has done in the last century.
It is easier for Christianity, thogh, considering its central figures were all Jews, and its holy books were comprised primarily by Jews. Not so for Islam.
“I have often wondered if we are headed for a time when the Islamic faith treats Jews kindly, as much of Christianity has done in the last century.”
Christianity’s antagonism toward Jews was greatly subdued (theologically) because of Holocaust and subsequent emergence of Israel. Unfortunately, the hardline Islamic antagonism toward Jews may only be subdued through a decisive military defeat OR wholesale secularization of major Muslim nations (similar to how Turkey and Iran used to be friendly with Israel at the time when they had governments which promoted secularism and actively countered Islamic extremism).
“It is easier for Christianity, thogh, considering its central figures were all Jews, and its holy books were comprised primarily by Jews. Not so for Islam.”
Actually, most of “Islamic” figures, heroes and prophets happen to be Jews as well (since Islam borrowed them all from the Jewish scriptures, even Issa – Yeshua – himself is included among the prophets of Islam!), that is apart from Mohamed and his progeny (i.e. those who claim direct descent from him, therefore authority). May be if Muslims realized THAT fact and then started to view their own scriptures as “misinterpreted” when it comes to Jews (the way many Christians do today) , perhaps THEN there’s a chance for a similar awakening.
Great coverage of an awesome conversation, Gene. How did you remember all that? Did you record it? Also, terrific point in the last paragraph of your comment above. Of course, it’s an even greater hope.
Thanks, Luke. I caught him in the IM one day – so this text came directly from the archive.
Oh, nice. I hadn’t thought of that.
Anyway, enjoying your blog immensely, Gene.
Tough act to follow.
Well I’d just like to say, excluding the last century or this one, its mostly Muslim leaders/kings/etc who have treated Jews better than Christian leaders; the 700 year arab muslim rule in Spain (and when this ended, it was the Christians who tortured the jews and muslims and either forced them to convert or threw them out), General Salahuddin in the holy land during the Christian crusades ( Christian scholars write that when richard and his army marched in they killed so many muslims that the mosque was flowing with blood up to the knees. But when Salahuddin won the last battle he let them all go even though he had the right to jail or kill them all.) to name a few examples.
Today there so much propaganda about how muslims are all evil jew hating terrorists, and the common man doesn’t even realise that media only captures a tiny fraction of events. They only capture the corrupt leaders and fanatics who, along with their cruel actions and unislamic beliefs do not even make up a percentage of Muslims . I can safely say its more politics and a greed for power by such powerful figures that merely uses Islam or any religion as a guise to display itself to the masses than the actual feeling of the majority of muslims about Jews or the west or whatever. Most just want a safe place to live in, a permanent job, a roof over their heads, a school to send their children to.
Its like the method Adolph Hitler used to stir up anti-semitism in the 1930s, saying that Jews were taking over businesses, stealing jobs etc, had cruel practices (all of which wasn’t even half true of course) and of course not everyone believed it, but what could they do, it was either join the nazis , or support them, or else be punished (killed, sent off to camps etc) or just starve in the economic crisis gripping germany and they too just wanted a roof over their heads, a job, a place for their children to grow up not knowing the pangs of starvation and a life on their streets
(this doesn’t excuse Adolph Hitlers or the Nazis actions and beliefs though but makes it worse since they even exploited the masses hardships and ignorance to incite hatred.)
But great article. Really interesting and actually a nice change. xx
And a note; in islam, we haven’t ‘borrowed’ the prophets, I feel this is sometimes misunderstood, we believe in the same prophets, we believe Prophet Abraham peace be upon him bought the Jewish faith, and it was the true faith, and after him all the other prophets like David, Joseph, Moses and Jesus peace be upon them.
The only difference is that we don’t believe Jesus (pbuh) was the son of god like chritians do, but a prophet who bought Christianity, which was then the true faith we believe, because Judaism had been the true faith but it had been altered and parts forgotten by people (we believe) so Jesus (pbuh) actually ‘reformed’ it, and bought also new teachings for the times. Then years and years later, Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him came and taught those same teachings because people had forgotten them, but with them, brought newer teachings that didn’t contradict the original teachings, that not only were for the times then, but for the whole of time from then on (we believe). In this way, we believe Islam is just a different name, but it is the same teachings but brought back, and new ones added for the times, so it is the ‘complete’ version, like, you could say, an upgrade.
Like, if in the Torah pork is not permitted, so are Christians permitted from pork, because they believe in all the prophets and teachings (new testament=torah), since Jesus (pbuh) didn’t bring a completely different religion, he just upgraded it a little, but didn’t, in our opinion, change the original teachings. But today, Jews don’t eat pork but most Christians do. So following this logic, Muslims don’t eat pork, because god ordained it from the start in Judaism, Jesus (pbuh) reinforced it, and so did our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
Well I hope I explained it so it was understood properly, but its really interesting hearing other peoples views from different faiths, especially Jews who it seems to me mostly seem more in touch with their religion which is admirable considering Judaism is older than Christianity.
And I do also hope that the silent majorities can speak out and propagate the facts you said in comments above to create a sense of harmony and peace between faiths, but you can understand its difficult since most muslim countries are in turmoil right now and being turned upside down by extremists/dictators/outside interference who are all exploiting the masses and seriously depriving them of education enough to see this, and those who do see it, cannot speak out.
And by Issa, you mean Jesus (pbuh)? xx
Hana, thank you for stopping by and commenting on this blog. I am glad you liked this post and I very much appreciate your input and I hope to hear from you in the future. You are quite correct that Jews, while still considered dhimmis in Muslim lands and had been subjected to violence from time to time, had far more freedom and security there than they did in the Christian nations of Europe.
“So following this logic, Muslims don’t eat pork, because god ordained it from the start in Judaism, Jesus (pbuh) reinforced it, and so did our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).”
Hana, something jumped out for me in your comment above. You are correct – both Judaism and Islam prohibit consumption of pork (and Jesus, being a Jew and a prophet, would rightly agree with that). However, Torah expressely forbids Jews to eat camel meat as well (among other animals), per Deuteronomy 14:7. However, in Islam it is permitted. If Islam, as you say, only reinforces what G-d has already ordained through the prophets in times past, why would eating camel meat be permitted for Muslims? Did G-d change his mind? I am curious if you know the reasons for this.
I’m curious, too, to understand why it is permitted for a Muslim to each shellfish (I didn’t know about the camel meat – I have so much to learn).
Shellfish? Well fish is permitted. All fish. Are jews not allowed to eat shellfish? I’ll be honest, I didn’t know of this!
one must keep in mind that Muslims believe all religions, including judaism nd christianity, were true at the time, but over the centuries were distorted, changed, things added and taken away from the torah etc (We believe) so the judaism today has many differences, according to us, of the Judaism in the time of Abraham (pbuh), Moses (pbuh) etc(don’t get me wrong, Islam has been distorted, things added and taken away, misinterpretations too by some people,hence all the violence, terrorism, oppression, the whole world can see itetc). So perhaps then that answers the camel meat question too (i say perhaps because I didn’t know that Jews were not permitted camel meat. . Also, like I said, if they indeed were not originally permitted, its not a matter of God ‘Changing his mind’, but as i said, God laying down the laws according to the times, because times changed. For example, judaism, muslims believe, was brought when humans weren’t as developed mind wise, (and so it was basic teachings for civilisation right then) like they were centuries later at the time of Jesus Christ (pbuh), who brought back the same basic teachings, reminded things that were forgotten, and gave the, so to speak, ‘tweaks’ for the times (ordained by god) and so on with Islam.E.g at the time of our prophet, alcohol became banned, but not at the time of christianity or judaism, because perhaps then it wasn’t a big vice as it was in 6th century arabia and would become (As it is today.)
But the fundamental teachings stayed the same. (One god, respect your fellow humans, no killing, idolatry, adultery, falsehood etc)
I’m not Arab, I’m of indian descent so I never sat down and thought people would eat camels. Forgive my ignorance :O
And Muslims can eat kosher meat, but Jews cannot eat all halal meat then. (Well, in the end we all believe in the same god, most of the same prophets. Its just we believe different things about them. It shouldn’t deter one from respecting each other, right?)
Well it seems like I’ve answered Mr Shlomovich’s answer here too :) x
Thanks, Hana. Interesting to know. A former neighbour of mine is of indian descent, with a Muslim background, but wasn’t a practicing Muslim. He moved on, but was an excellent friend to my wife and I. He and my wife swapped stories about the culture and country they were both from: Trinidad.
And not all fish are permitted for Jews, only those with both scales and fins (that leaves out basa fish, sharkfin soup, etc)
I can’t believe I found a blog where Jews, Christians, and Muslims have intelligent conversations and are actually trying to learn from one another instead of shoving insults at each other. After reading so many disturbing comments on YouTube this morning about my religion (Islam), this feels amazing. I’m going to cry in the corner of my room and later on enter a mad-scientist mode in which I take all of you, clone a million of each one, and scatter you all over the planet. <3
Joodster, thanks for the comment and a laugh:)
BTW, you probably never heard of such a thing, but what do you think of “Muslim Messianics” – that is Christians (who do not call themselves such) who believe that Jesus is the Messiah (in way that Muslims traditionally do not – for example, they reject traditional Muslim teaching that Jesus DID NOT die on the cross) but otherwise continue to live in their Muslim communities as devout Muslims.
Check this out: http://www.ijfm.org/PDFs_IJFM/17_1_PDFs/Followers_of_Isa.pdf
Agnostic here, letting you guys know that all the traditional Abrahamic religions appear to be out of date. If you insist in believing in the Abrahamic god, I implore you to do so without institutionalized rules. Let your own morals, love, and humanity be your guidebook. This will bring people together….which I believe is the fundamental reason for religion in the first place.
“Agnostic here, letting you guys know that all the traditional Abrahamic religions appear to be out of date.”
Thanks, Wais, I didn’t know that my faith had an expiration date! Although, as an agnostic, you by definition (as your own words indicate) wouldn’t know for sure if they indeed expired or just “appear” to be so. With that being the case, is it too much of me to prefer to err on the side of caution (and faith)?
“Let your own morals, love, and humanity be your guidebook.”
In many ways it’s already the case, since Abrahamic religions believe that G-d has put a conscience in us for that very reason.