Messiah who dies and doesn’t usher in peace
[This post was originally published a year ago].
Many detractors of Yeshua as Messiah claim that he didn’t fulfill ANY of the requirements or prophecies to qualify as a messiah and therefore he has failed in his mission and must be then unequivocally declared a “false” messiah. However, as I will show in my post, this reaction is either purely polemical at its core or simply done out of ignorance . This is because it does not fully take into account (or ignores) either the teachings of our prophets in the Tanakh, our sages, or even the voices in traditional Judaism today. The detractors overlook the little publicized knowledge that the Jewish tradition (Talmud, Sukkah 52a, b) holds that there are two messiahs, Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David. Today, however, this teaching is once again being publicly discussed within traditional Judaism, including the largest and most influential of modern movements in Orthodoxy: Chabad. This teaching is significant because it demonstrates that each appearance of the two appearances of the Messiah (one that leads to Messiah’s death and one that leads to his triumph and to ushering of global peace) plays an essential role in the Redemption plan of G-d.
Jewish tradition speaks of two redeemers, each one called Moshiach. Both are involved in ushering in the Messianic Era. They are Moshiach ben David and Moshiach ben Yosef… Moshiach ben Yosef will be killed in the war against Gog and Magog. Again, it is unclear whether the death will be in physical battle, or as a result of the spiritual battles which he will wage against the forces of evil. (Rabbi Naftali Silberberg, Chabad.org, The Battle of Gog and Magog)
Those of us who are followers of the Master know that when Yeshua was sent to Israel, his mission as Maschiach ben Yosef was not to usher peace on earth (that part of Redemption, according to Jewish tradition, would be done by the second “instance” of messiah), but rather to defeat the spiritual forces of the adversary that have held Israel and the whole world captive at the time and to initiate the redemptive process. In Jewish tradition, this battle is associated with the battle of G-d and Magog, a mysterious and little understood event. This is a complex subject, and we are told that even the Jewish tradition itself is not conclusive on whether the battle will be spiritual or physical, or even if it has already taken place:
The prophet Ezekiel (chapters 38-39) describes a climactic battle that will be instigated by Gog and/of Magog, and will be waged against Israel and G‑d. The defeat of Gog and Magog will precipitate the Messianic Redemption. It is difficult to dwell on this topic because it is so shrouded in mystery. We are uncertain as to the identity of Gog and Magog, whether Gog and Magog are the names of nations or individuals, whether this battle will be a physical or spiritual battle, and even whether it has already occurred or not. (Rabbi Naftali Silberberg, Chabad.org, The Battle of Gog and Magog)
In light of the above, I would like to submit that this battle was indeed spiritual and that it indeed has already occurred at the coming of Messiah Yeshua as Maschiach ben Yosef, and the spiritual forces he battled were the adversary (satan) himself and the forces under his command. Yeshua himself confirmed this much when he said the following to his disciples:
Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. (Yochanan/John 12:31)
And here are his words regarding the spiritual battle that he came to wage vs. the supposed idyllic messianic peace that some claim he were suppose to bring (if he were a “true” Messiah):
Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. (Matityahu/Matthew 10:34)
An influential rabbi, academic and scholar Jacob Immanuel Schochet describes the details of the first messianic mission in this way:
The essential function of Mashiach ben Yossef is to prepare Israel for the final redemption, to put them into the proper condition in order to clear the way for Mashiach ben David to come. Of that ultimate redemption it is said, that if Israel repent (return to G-d) they shall be redeemed immediately (even before the predetermined date for Mashiach’s coming). If they will not repent and thus become dependent on the final date, “the Holy One, blessed be He, will set up a ruler over them, whose decrees shall be as cruel as Haman’s, thus causing Israel to repent, and thereby bringing them back to the right path.” In other words, if Israel shall return to G-d on their own and make themselves worthy of the redemption, there is no need for the trials and tribulations associated with the above account of events related to Mashiach ben Yossef. Mashiach ben David will come directly and redeem us.
No one can deny that Israel has certainly suffered many trials and tribulations since the coming of Messiah ben Joseph, just as it is also plain to see that the overhwhelming majority of Jews have yet to return to G-d. The obvious conclusion is that we, as a nation, are not yet worthy to usher in the coming of Messiah ben David.
It is also interesting that the Jewish tradition (not to mention our prophets) even supports the understanding that Israel will eventually mourn Mashiach ben Yosef as a nation, something that I attribute to the fact that the people of Israel as a whole did not recognize Yeshua when he came and will feel sorrow as a result:
[The] prophet Zechariah (12:10) describes the national mourning that will follow his death. (Rabbi Naftali Silberberg, Chabad.org, The Battle of Gog and Magog)
How strange it is for a Jewish ear to hear that Maschiach is to be killed. How strange it is to hear that Israel will mourn for their Messiah. How “goyish” is that!? That sounds too much like “that guy” that Jews are not suppose to even talk about. Surely, if Messiah is killed – he has failed! Since Yeshua did not bring everlasting peace when he came and was killed – he must have failed as Messiah (or so we are told)! Well, as I have shown above both the dual mission of Messiah and even Messiah’s death in the battle for Redemption is a very Jewish thing, something that both our prophets and our sages have taught, something that our rabbis still teach today.
Interesting and valuable …
On a lighter note, it is also interesting that the Messiah was known as the son of Joseph (the carpenter :-) and as son of David.
Ex 18:18-19: “I [the Lord] will raise up for them [Israel] a prophet like you [Moses] from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and … whoever will not listen … I myself will require it of him.”
The passage seems to point to one Messiah who is a prophet and not two in terms of identity. How is this reconciled with the two traditional messianic missions?
“The passage seems to point to one Messiah who is a prophet and not two in terms of identity. How is this reconciled with the two traditional messianic missions?”
John… it can reconciled by the fact that there are other passages that point to two missions and especially to Messiah being a king descended from Judah and not just a prophet (Genesis 49:10 and Numbers 24:17).
I was just thinking that if the two different missions of Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David are actually to be fulfilled by one person, then there would have to be a resurrection of the Messiah since Messiah ben Joseph comes first and dies!
“… Tanakh … says: the Messiah is to suffer and to rise from the dead…” (Luke 24: 45-46)
As this is not written in one single place in the Tanakh, this concept of a single messiah instead of two messiahs would have to be constructed from various places as alluded to in passages such as:
“… reasoned … from the Tanakh … that the Messiah had to suffer and rise again from the dead …” (Acts 17: 2-3)
“… the prophets and Moshe said … that the Messiah would die and … rise from the dead …” (Acts 26: 22-23)
To arrive at the conclusion that a single individual, the Messiah, would die and resurrect and rule on King David’s throne — in that order — perhaps a process of inference similar to the following was being used:
“… Abraham, being tested, offered up Isaac … concluding that God is able to raise up even from the dead …” (Heb 11:17-20)
Can the case be made that Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David have to be the same person as opposed to the case that they could be the same person?
“Can the case be made that Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David have to be the same person as opposed to the case that they could be the same person?”
I think the case CAN be made that the second Messiah is actually the resurrected first Messiah, but with a new more exalted role. Just as Yeshua made the case [Matthew 11:7-14 ] that John the Baptist was actually born [reincarnated???] with the spirit of Elijah, but with a new role and a different name to boot!
“if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come” (Matthew 11:14)
Just as Yeshua made the case [Matthew 11:7-14 ] that John the Baptist was actually born [reincarnated???] with the spirit of Elijah, but with a new role and a different name to boot!
Tell me that was tongue in cheek Gene…
“Tell me that was tongue in cheek Gene…”
Scary thought, eh, Brad? Well, my personal stance on the Jewish kabbalistic concept of transmigration of souls is quite skeptical (not that G-d couldn’t do it, if he wanted to).
However, can you imagine if Yeshua said something like this from the pulpit of some Evangelical church today, that a cousin of his, who was born around the same time as he was, was actually a prophet from another time long ago? He’d be chased out for being a heretic! [Actually, there are many beliefs and sayings for which Yeshua would have been chased out of your average church today - may be it's a post for another day...].
No wonder Yeshua had to put a disclaimer “if you are willing to accept it”!
To “reincarnate” one would have to die and it is not clear that Elijah died. So one would have to ask (even if directed towards the pulpit :-), in what sense is John “the Elijah who is to come”?
In Luke 1:17, before John’s birth, the angel said that John will go in the spirit and power of Elijah. I have interpreted this to mean that John would be similar to Elijah in attitude and demonstration rather than literally being Elijah or Elijah’s spirit returning.
(I also think that Elisha having a double portion of Elijah’s spirit in 2 Kings 2: 9, 15 did not mean that Elisha literally contained two Elijahs and that Elisha’s spirit migrated elsewhere or co-existed with Elijah’s spirit ;-).
But, John 1:21 seems to suggest that some Jewish people did not seem to have any difficulty with the notion that John the Baptist could really be Elijah. However, John himself said, “no”, in response to, “Are you Elijah?”
Most of this expectation of Elijah returning is based on Malachi 4:5. I think this return of Elijah could be literal, figurative or both.
After the transfiguration in Mat 17: 11-12, there is mention that
* Elijah is still to come; and
* Elijah has already come (in reference to John the Baptist).
Maybe Elijah will literally come again in future, but has already figuratively come in John the Baptist.
Just thinking: Heb 9:27 “it is appointed for man to die ONCE, and after that comes judgment”.
Even though Heb 9:27 is not intended to be a doctrinal statement against reincarnation in general, or even that every human being must die (as Enoch and Elijah(?) did not die), I do not expect that a human being will die more than once in different bodies by being reincarnated.
But I suppose a reincarnation into the same body may be viewed as a resurrection which everybody will experience once (except for Enoch, Elijah and some of those who are living when the Messiah returns as King :-)
Gene, would you possibly make the case for Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David being the same person without reincarnating anybody?
:-)
“I do not expect that a human being will die more than once in different bodies by being reincarnated.”
John, very good analysis! Let’s throw another proverbial monkey wrench with the following question (and this has to do with this “die once and afterward judgment” idea that is in fact a doctrine in much of Christianity – and I am not talking about reincarnation):
Whatever happened to these “many” people – did they die AGAIN?
“The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus’ resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.” (Matthew 27:52-53)
“Whatever happened to these “many” people – did they die AGAIN?”
Good point! I do not know. That has long been a mystery to me!
In fact, anybody who has returned to this life after dying is also interesting (1 Kings 17:22). And the case of Lazarus is particularly interesting because he had been in the tomb for four days (John 11:17) and decay had set in. Some were even trying to kill Lazarus again (John 12:10) which would perhaps indicate that they believed he could be killed again.
I would venture to guess that people like Lazarus were resuscitated and not resurrected. They eventually died again in their same bodies.
True, these would then be cases where people have died MORE THAN once.
But, I would not call these miracles reincarnation and I do not think that they died more than two times (or three depending on whether they were also part of the “many” in Mat 27). I don’t think that there is a limit to the number of times you can be resuscitated into your own body, though each resuscitation would be a miracle and the greater the duration before resuscitation, the greater the miracle!
As for the “many” in Mat 27:53… the tombs had to be broken because the remnants of their original bodies had to be recovered. Perhaps they could have been resuscitated, or because of the timing (after the resurrection of the Messiah), could have been resurrected. If the former, they probably died again and are awaiting a resurrection. If the latter, perhaps they also eventually ascended to heaven with glorified bodies never to die again (perhaps making an appearance in Rev 11:16 as the 24 elders ??? … in which case “many” = 24 :-). Also, if the latter, they will not be resurrected again.
Eph 4:8 “After he went up into the heights, he led captivity captive…” quoting Ps 68:18.
I do not know if the expression, “led captivity captive”, is pertinent to the “many” after Jesus ascended.
So perhaps some can die AGAIN except that in none of the examples discussed did people reincarnate into other bodies to be born as babies (to have this most unusual experience).
The Gentile church tends to “Christianize” the Jewish prophesies of the Messiah so they look like the more familiar Jesus. Here we see the “Gentile Jesus” being refactored back into his original Jewish template. This would be good message to the Jewish world but I dispair that most non-Jewish believers would have a difficult time accepting a truly Jewish king.
“I dispair that most non-Jewish believers would have a difficult time accepting a truly Jewish king.”
I wonder if the reaction to Jewish Jesus of many if not most Christians would be something like from this story I posted.
“If they will not repent and thus become dependent on the final date, the Holy One, blessed be He, will set up a ruler over them, whose decrees shall be as cruel as Haman’s, thus causing Israel to repent, and thereby bringing them back to the right path.”
It seems to me this prevision by rabbi Schochet, would call for a limited number of scenarios to occur considering Israel’s current situation. 1.) This ruler would be one of their own. 2.) Israel would have to be surrounded, captured and conquered in situ. 3.) This ruler’s dominion would have to virtually global in its influence and power.
Brad
Brad, interesting observations. I’ll comment briefly on one of your points:
“1. This ruler would be one of their own.”
I don’t believe this to be the case, considering that Haman is used as an example, who was certainly NOT one of “their own” and who in the name of Ahasuerus exercised authority over Jews. The same is certainly true of the various Babylonian, Greek and Roman kings and emperors who issued exceedingly cruel decrees against Jews and caused great suffering. In other words, I do not believe that Antichrist (a.k.a. some future evil ruler of the world) will be a Jew, if that’s what you meant.
We have a clue from Daniel: “This king will reject the gods (plural) his ancestors worshiped and the god preferred by women. ” (Daniel 11:37)
Truth be told Gene, the title of Antichrist did not enter my thoughts until I saw myself writing the 3rd scenario.
For arguments sake though:
Regarding Israel’s current political system, enlighten me. Does the leader of the ruling party in Israel’s parliamentary system (ie. The Prime Minister) have to be Jewish? Is it not possible for say a 2nd or 3rd generation born citizen of Israel, from non-Israeli (ie. European, Arab or even Chinese) parents, who embraces a humanistic and or atheistic outlook, to be PM?
Shalom
Yes, it’s possible, from a legal point of view, that a non-Jew could be elected to the post. That however is highly unlikely, especially considering the strength of Orthodox parties in the Knesset and projected explosive growth of Orthodox population in the future.
But again, one need not be a Prime minister of Israel to issue harsh decrees against the Jews. History attests to that.
From P’sikta Rabbati it is disclosed dat the Mashiach ben Josef, also called Ephraim, is the same as the Mashiach ben David (see perek 36:3 in hebrew, the translation from Yale has ch.36:2).
“The essential function of Mashiach ben Yossef is to prepare Israel for the final redemption, to put them into the proper condition in order to clear the way for Mashiach ben David to come. Of that ultimate redemption it is said, that if Israel repent (return to G-d) they shall be redeemed immediately (even before the predetermined date for Mashiach’s coming). If they will not repent and thus become dependent on the final date, “the Holy One, blessed be He, will set up a ruler over them, whose decrees shall be as cruel as Haman’s, thus causing Israel to repent, and thereby bringing them back to the right path.” In other words, if Israel shall return to G-d on their own and make themselves worthy of the redemption, there is no need for the trials and tribulations associated with the above account of events related to Mashiach ben Yossef. Mashiach ben David will come directly and redeem us.”
Something similar stated we find in Acts 3:19,20:
“Repent ye therefore, and make teshuva, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Yeshua haMashiach, which before was taught unto you.”
“[The] prophet Zechariah (12:10) describes the national mourning that will follow his death. (Rabbi Naftali Silberberg, Chabad.org, The Battle of Gog and Magog)”
This old tradition is firmly established in both the Talmud Bavli and the Talmud Yerushalmi:
“וספדה הארץ משפחות משפחות לבד משפחת בית דוד לבד ונשיהם לבד. … הא הספידא מאי עבידתיה? פליגי בה רבי דוסא ורבנן. חד אמר: על משיח בן יוסף שנהרג, … בשלמא למאן דאמר על משיח בן יוסף שנהרג היינו דכתיב (זכריה יב) והביטו אלי את אשר דקרו וספדו עליו כמספד על היחיד And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart (Zech.12:12). … What is the cause of the mourning? Rabbi Dosa and the Rabbis differ on the point. One explained, The cause is the slaying of Mashiach the son of Yossef, … It is well according to him who explains that the cause is the slaying of Mashiach the son of Yossef, since that well agrees with the Scriptural verse, And they shall look upon me because they have thrust him through, and they shall mourn for him as one mourneth for his only son; (Zech.12:10)” (Bavli Sukkah 52a)
The older Talmud Yerushalmi doesn’t mention ben Yossef, but calls him only Mashiach:
“מדבר תורה. וספדה הארץ משפחות משפחות לבד תרין אמורין חד אמר זה הספידו של משיח A teaching from the Torah: The country mourns, gender-wise, each particular (Zecharyah 12:12). Two Amoras; one said: It is the lamenting for the Mashiach; …” (Yerushalmi Sukkah 23b).
Thanks, Shmuel, it really adds to the picture of the suffering Messiah.