If you believe in Jesus, you believe in Replacement Theology

Israel is still chosen for what anyway? Hell? The chosen (those from the church) are blessed, the rest were harden for hell. Yes Dispensationalism is another non-sense.

“Christian all have one objective, to convert the Jewish people, and in their view, all those who reject Jesus will be with the anti-christ and destroy before Jesus second coming. The remnant of real Israel (AKA the Messianic Jews) will pass through the tribulation, but those evil who refuse to bow to Jesus will follow the anti-christ. This does not looks like a beautiful future for any real Jew.”

This is a very important point. Imagine a future, perhaps 200 – 500 years from now, in which many millions of Jews have been converted to belief in Jesus, leaving only a minority who staunchly refuse to accept him. By then you have not only billions of gentile believers growing increasingly frustrated with that last holdout group of Jews, millions of messianic Jews whose complaints against their own add legitimacy to gentile hatred for the group whose refusal is preventing the Second Coming. Does the Torah not make clear in the book of Joshua that the genocide of those who are unholy in the land is commanded by God? And if believers in Jesus are the legitimate Israel of God, then would they not think they are justified?

Even if things don’t pan out exactly in this way, the potential of a scenario along these lines is a frightening possibility.

The scale of the impact that Christianity will ultimately have on the Jewish community is impossible to predict at this time. I recognize that the majority of Christians do not evangelize, however the charge to do so — “to the Jew first and also to the Greek” — is solidly integrated into New Testament teachings. Thus, incorporated into Christianity is the push to replace Judaism.

Over centuries past, Jews were forced to convert or killed. Today, the effort is shrewd and non-violent, but results in the quiet disappearance of Jews through conversion. The tactics have changed but the end result is not dissimilar.

I recognize the goodness and the good intentions of Christian believers. Like differentiating between a good person who does “bad” things, I don’t have anything against Christians on a personal level.

However, given what we know and see, I consider Christianity to be an existential threat to the Jewish people.

Shalom!

In Israel, statistics reveal a largely ‘non-religious’ society where the majority of Jews do not practice Orthodox Judaism.

In contrast, we find increasing incidences of Haredi bullying, brutality, and discrimination against this societal secularism.

And yet we also find continued police brutality against Jewish Ethiopians and the police turning a blind eye to criminal acts of the Haredi.

Israel society promotes LGBT events and a large majority of the Israeli population support gay marriage — an indication of a ever increasing disrespect for G-d’s holiness that mimics the practices of other countries.

Although some of the more moderate Israeli Orthodox are trying to find unity with their ‘lost’ U.S. Reformed or Conservative brethren– without agreement regarding the Oral Law, it does not appear to be possible.

With these thoughts, several questions come to mind–

[*] Has Israel become more of a Zionist, secular nation rather than a holy nation following the G-d of Israel? If so, is Israel truly a ‘Jewish’ State?

[*] Does it seem reasonable to identify ‘Jewishness’ with traditional Rabbinic ‘Judaism’ when–
— the rabbinate is divided regarding who they consider to be a Jew
— atheism has become acceptable
— gross immorality has become acceptable
— divorce has become easy
— abortion has become acceptable
— a congregation could technically be 100% composed of white, anglo-saxon protestants who have converted according to halakha?

[*] Even if a modern Nazi extremist might categorize me as a filthy Mischling– why would I also be considered ‘Enemy #1’ by the Orthodox, Ultra-orthodox, etc simply because I am one of the moral, ‘orthodox’ Mashiachim in contrast to the ‘more acceptable’, non-religious, militantly atheistic or grossly immoral, halichic Jews?

[*] Why care about replacement theology of christians when in Israel– the fundamental tenets of 1st millennial Rabbinic Judaism is now eroded [‘replaced’] by professing Jews who are non-religious AND/OR racist, discriminatory, lawless, immoral, or atheistic?

PS> I am not saying under any, ANY circumstance that 1st millennial Judaism in and of itself does not try to practice historically what many would consider “good” deeds.

PSS> I am not saying that the sages and the Oral Law have nothing to teach the Mashiachim who follow the teachings of Moses and the Prophets.

PSSS> I am fully supportive of Israel’s statehood and believe the disputed territories should be officially annexed.
________________________________________________

Kavi, I think you have quite a few misunderstandings concerning the “divisions” within Judaism. First of all, Orthodox Jews are not “divided” concerning “who is a Jew” concerning Jews who are born into the religion. If your mother is Jewish then you are Jewish…Period. Virtually all orthodox Jews agree on this standard.

Your misunderstanding comes into play when you look at Conservative Jews Reform Jews and even secular Jews as a form of “replacement theology.” Let me explain:

Most Conservative and Reform Rabbis are quite cognizant that Orthodox Jews don’t accept their standards of kashrut, shomer Shabbos, conversion, etc. However, I there is an effort to acknowledge the words of Torah/Chazal in light of Conservative and Reform Judaism. When it comes down to it, Reform and Conservative Judaism really aren’t defined movements. Growing up, I attended Conservative Shuls, Reform Temples, Orthodox Shuls, and Chabad Houses. All of the denominations read from the Torah on Saturday morning and read a Haftorah afterwards. All read the same Parsha each week. (Reform sometimes would skimp out on parts of the Parsha, but they still made an effort.) All made an effort to daven the Shacharit and Musaf Shabbat services with a minyan, although conservative and reform were more egalitarian in their approach. The Conservative movement has become closer with the Reform movement going into the 21st century, so there has been some blending over the past few decades. However, the Baal Teshuva movement among Orthodox Jews has been growing stronger as well. One of my best friends who I have known since preschool, grew up extremely Reform. He didn’t even know what tefillin were by the time we reached high school! We were in a non-denominational Jewish youth group called BBYO when we were in high school, and one summer, he went on a summer trip where he was exposed to Orthodox Judaism in a relaxed manner. After the trip, he seemed more open to Judaism, so I invited him to go to my shul with me. (My father and I attended a Modern Orthodox/Traditional shul most of the time on Saturday mornings.) We started going to shul together, and long story short, my friend is now Haradi Orthodox and married with 3 kids. (Baruch Hashem!)

I’ll also have you know that for a short period of time in High School, my now Haradi friend considered “messianic Judaism.” (He was dating an evangelical christian at the time.) Needless to say, he quickly saw the silliness of the NT and the absurdity of the supposed messiahship of your jeezer…)

But the moral of the story is this: Reform/Conservative Judaism might not be ideal, but they give Jews a foundation to grow upon. They learn Hebrew in Jewish school. They learn about and attempt to observe Yom Kippur, Pesach, Sukkot, Shavuot, Rosh Hashanna, even Tu Bishvat! Sure, the Reform movement might have hijacked “Tikun Olam” and turned it into a phrase synonymous with the liberal agenda, but they still acknowledge that their observance of the Mitzvot is typically lesser than other movements. Same with Conservative Jews. Reform Rabbis typically don’t go around telling you “Don’t even try to keep Shabbos! That’s not relevant to us anymore!” They won’t tell you that the Torah was “fulfilled” by some dead guy on a stick who supposedly turned into a zombie. They won’t tell you that the Mitzvot of the Torah were just a temporary mandate that were only given to us to show us that no matter how hard we try, we will never be able to do them, so we need some dead guy on a stick to “shed blood on our behalf” and then come back as a zombie to “save us.”

No…Reform and Conservative Jews encourage the practicing of the Mitzvot, albeit in a watered down fashion. They daven the same prayers as Orthodox Jews, although some of the services are shortened and a couple words are added to the Amidah to include the Matriarchs and such. All of the movements acknowledge that Hashem is not to be worshipped as a form in any fashion, a clear distinction for your understanding of the jeezer.

Reform and Conservative Judaism potentially serve as stepping stones for Jewish growth. They acknowledge the importance of Written and Oral Torah. This is in contrast to your christian bastardization of Judaism, which requires the worship of the jeezer, a man who walked the earth, as a god, and more often than not, discourages the observance of the Mitzvot in context with Rabbinical teachings.

Shalom

Also Kavi, you brought up “secular Jews” and how they are “accepted” among Orthodox Jews as Jews. You then contrast this to the disdain that Orthodox Jews and other denominations of Judaism have for “Messianic Jews.” The reason for this is simple:

Secular Jews typically aren’t evangelists for their cause. Many have a nonchalant attitude about religion and aren’t actively trying to “convert” people to secularism. Much like Reform and Conservative Judaism, “secularism” isn’t a defined movement…

I’ve met Jews who identify as “Conservative” Jews who will willingly eat bacon, but would stop everything to go to services on Yom Kippur. I’ve also met Jews who identify as “Reform” who wear tefillin every morning.

I’ve also met people who identify as “cultural/secular Jews” who can lead Pesach Sedarim. When you’re looking at the movements from the outside looking in, like you are Kavi, you aren’t getting the full picture.

There are also efforts made by Aish and Chabad to try and combat atheism among Jews. Gerald Schroeder, Rabbi Lawrence Kelemen, and Rabbi Dovid Gottleib are famous for this.

At the end of the day, secularism plagues all religions. This isn’t unique to Judaism.

Shalom

Yehuda,
Thank you for your comments– I appreciate that your responses came with added the flavor of personal experience :)

Gene,
Could you elaborate further– Do you mean the true Mashiachim destroy ‘Jews’ or ‘Rabbinic Judaism’?

Do atheistic or militantly immoral Jews receive the same contempt?

The halichic ‘Jewish’ Mashiachim have congregations throughout Israel– including Yerushalayim. You are not one of the extremist mindset who would bully or brutalize one these ‘lost’ brethren [as some of the Haredi have done]?

Please explain.

________________________________

(Sorry Gene, I jumped your thread.)

Jim and Gene,
According to the Tanakh, where do you find that a Jew who believes in Zeus or Baal is no longer a Jew?

Again, if anyone replies. . . please quote from the Tanakh.

_______________________

Jim,
As Gene correctly mentions, there is nowhere in the Tanakh that explicitly says a Jew’s sin permanently removes his status as Jew– only their status in the Olam Ha-ba:

So,
According to HaShem, which is worse:

— atheism or faith in Zeus?

— homosexuality or divination?

— pride or idolatry?

Hint> I Samuel 15
___________________________________

Gene,
I would never say the rabbis are not legitimate Jews for the same reason as you stated– HaShem’s promises to the Jews are never revoked. All Jews remain so regardless of their belief– and yes, they may indeed have no inheritance in the Olam Ha-ba, but they remain Jews.

If I may ask– according to halakha, does not the Orthodox rabbinate agree that a halachic Jew may change his/her faith without impacting their status as a Jew?

___________________________________

“As Gene correctly mentions, there is nowhere in the Tanakh that explicitly says a Jew’s sin permanently removes his status as Jew– only their status in the Olam Ha-ba”

Are you trying to say that it’s okay for a Jew to violate God’s first commandment? That they are still a Jew? Why then, I guess it’s okay for a Jew to be a murderer, right? After all, they would still be a Jew.

And what is a Jew, oh idolater who wraps himself in a Jewish cloak, like a wolf in a sheepskin? Do you really think you can teach Jews the lessons of God in Tanakh? I think you have demonstrated in this blog over and over again that you simply cannot.

1 Samuel 15:22-23 teaches very clearly that following God’s commandments, such as:
“Do not follow other gods whom you have not experienced.”,
(which includes Jesus) is more important than sacrifice. And doesn’t your Book of Fiction claim that Jesus was God’s final sacrifice? Hm. God’s commandments are supreme.

You simply cannot avoid that the verses you use to try to justify your idolatry always turn back against you.

“Based on a lack of response, it seems safe to say you both believe:
[] a halachic Jewish atheist is equivalent to a halachic Jewish idolater;
[] a halachic LGBT Jew remains a halachic Jew [albeit a ‘nominal’ one].”

I left questions directed to Gene to him to answer. I answered thequestions directed to me.

“[*] Why care about replacement theology of christians when in Israel itself, the fundamental tenets of 1st millennial Rabbinic Judaism are being ‘replaced’ by an increasingly secular society where the majority of professing Jews are largely non-religious [i.e., not truly observant, or grossly immoral, or covetous, or atheistic, etc] ?”

I agree that secularism is a threat to the Jewish community, and a much larger threat than Christian missionary efforts at this point in time. There are those who are attempting to address that problem and many are quite capable of doing so. Far fewer are those who truly understand the Christian deception, and I am one of those. We all choose our battles.

Anybody can think they could be from a lost tribe of Israel or of Jewish lineage Kavi. That’s why it is important not to convert. Once somebody leave Judaism, his children will not be Jewish and will not know they are Jewish. In the end they lost the blessing of being Jewish. You, me and lots of other people may come from Jewish lineage, but it really does not matter, we are not Jewish. I heard that in my congregation “I am Jewish”, “my last name was Jewish”, “I am from a lost Tribe”, “I am Jewish in my heart”, or weather other non-sense. And I am just thinking “No you’re not, you pretend to be Jewish, that’s all”.

_______________________________

An atheist is a bit more than just a ‘fool’– they are:
— corrupt, and
— have committed abominable deeds, and
— completely devoid of good.

[**] Psalm 14:1
“The fool said in his heart, “There is no God”; they have dealt corruptly; they have committed abominable deeds; none does good.”

HaShem, as Judge, must commit both idolater and atheist to Gehenna for eternity.

______________________________

So what are those deeds Kavi? You seem to know.

Gene there were not “true” follower of Jesus, that’s all. All true Christians are perfect.

Nobody is atheist here… To convert an atheist may be as futile as trying to convince a Christian. Everybody should try to do what please G-d and for the rest, G-d is Judge. I don’t think that it is the point to point fingers to others, Jews or Gentiles have a free will to believe or not in the G-d of Heaven. I know Tel Aviv has a pride parade, so has Vancouver and many American Cities. Christianity and Islam has been know for their evangelistic tactics and it works well. Maybe we should do the same with others sins in the bible? Or should we force people to follow a specific religion? People in America/Canada/Israel are free to believe and practice whatever they want (as long as it is not against somebody else will). There are moral christian, jews and atheist, for the rest, G-d is Judge.

Friends,
There is no need for hyperbole in Psalm 14 or Psalm 53– the wicked have always worked their evil against the righteous ever since Gan Eden when satan initiated the fall of mankind. After which quickly followed Cain murdering righteous Abel, and so on and on throughout the ages. . .

____________________________________

But Israel is the “generation of the righteous”. That does not fit Paul’s comment. The Righteous is the one that walk in the way of the L-rd, not the one that believe in the Jesus. The righteous throughout the book of psalms refers to those who keep the Law of the L-rd, which make the simple wise and is a light on our steps. It is not a curse and people can be righteous without Jesus. That whole precept that Paul invented is nowhere in the scripture. Judge me according to my righteousness, said David. G-d hates the wicked but bless the righteous. The G-d whose anger is for a moment (not forever and ever and ever) but his mercies endures forever. You look like the one who say “there is no help for him in G-d” because we do not believe in your Jesus, but that is not true, G-d is with the generation of the righteous (not sinless as Paul wants you to believe)

I often hear that story of G-d being a righteous G-d and we deserve to go to hell forever. Then Jesus appears in the court and say that he will pay the price instead of us. And that makes god just and the justifier. Hey, I could go in any court of law in North America and ask the judge to serve the sentence instead of a murderer. They would all, without exception say NO. Why? because that would not be justice, that would be Justice corruption, and that G-d hates that! So all your non-sense that we are ALL sinners and deserve hell and that only Jesus can save use is not in scriptures. Look at Ezekiel 18. Jesus is not there again.

Hi Julian,

First, although I completely disagree with the NT, I want to say that I personally appreciate your desire to reinterpret Matthew in a light that is more favorable to Jews.

I would even offer an extension of this line of thinking:

For those who believe Jesus was the the final sacrifice to cleanse mankind of sin, it actually makes no sense to look with disdain and hatred toward Jews for the Crucifixion (putting aside for the moment who was actually responsible).

I’m sure I’m not the first to point this out — although I have yet to see this made by anyone else, anywhere else — but just consider this:

If Jesus had lived to a ripe old age and died naturally in his sleep, would he have been considered a sacrifice? If he had died of disease, would his blood have atoned? In order for him to be a sacrifice, his blood had to be shed — am I correct?

But what if some robbers from Egypt kiled him on the road? Would that suffice? Could any gentiles, including the Romans (who I do believe we’re the sole participants in the murder), have killed Jesus and the killing be considered a proper sacrifice according to the God of Israel? Do you see where I’m going with this?..

Therefore, the believer, by virtue of the fact that he is a believer, is obliged to regard the Jews as the only ones who could (unwittingly) effect their salvation through shedding the atoning blood of Jesus. There is no other way.

So rather than hate Jews for killing Jesus, believers should hold Jews in high regard — as God’s chosen instrument for bringing salvation to all mankind.

Now I know my Jewish friends here may be aghast at my writing anything in support of the story that Jews killed Jesus (which I do not believe), and that I’m putting forth an outrageous suggestion that God would use us to sacrifice any person for religious purposes (and as a Jew I absolutely reject the idea), but if one follows the Christian line if thinking, is it really so far off? I think this argument fits Christain theology perfectly, and one can even find verses in the Gospels that are synchronous.

But, more to my purpose in proposing this: If Christians had thought this way from the beginning, the world would not have witnessed centuries of Jewish persecution, including the Holocaust.

Hi Julian, I don’t think that your point of view can fit with the NT scriptures: “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.”

According to that passage, those who do not believe in Jesus, like the Jewish people and myself, are cursed by your god. That’s why it has been pushed on the jewish people, whether forcibly or convincingly.

The truth, Jesus or Yeshua could not be an accepted sacrifice.

Leviticus 17:8-9
8 “Say to them: Anyone from the house of Israel or from the foreigners who live among them who offers a burnt offering or a sacrifice 9 but does not bring it to the entrance to the tent of meeting to sacrifice it to the Lord, that person must be cut off from his people.

Nowhere a male lamb ever was sacrificed for sin. The passover lamb was NOT a sin sacrifice. The goat of Yom Kippur was never sacrifice for all the sins of Israel (the one sacrifice is for the sins of the priest), the one that goes out of the camp, takes the sins (and that goat is not sacrifice at all).

There is no sacrifice (kroban) for willing sin.

Gene, Stop kidding, we were wrong all this time!

18“Forget the former things;
do not dwell on the past.
See, I am doing a new thing! (AKA Jesus, forget the rest of the text meaning, forget the rest of the Tanakh, I found a proof for Jesus, the new thing! It’s there in the book of Isaiah, the gost told me, he opened my eyes)

He also told me that Isaiah 7:1 to 13 talks about Ahab and it’s 500 BCE, then Isaiah 7:14 is Jesus birth -2 BCE, then the rest of Isaiah 7 and 8 is back 500 BCE, then Isaiah 9:1 is Jesus ministry 30 CE, then 9:2 to 5 is back 470 BCE, then 9:6-7 is Jesus birth again! 2 BCE, then 9:11 is back with Resin, (the same guy that was on Isaiah 7!) (470 BCE)

You really need the gost to reveal that!

By “scriptural reason” I assume you mean from the Hebrew Bible. I would say Isaiah 53:10.

Yes, Jesus was the goat that was sent out into the wilderness to Azazel, which most modern scholars say should be translated “fierce god.” Since there is only one God to whom we sacrifice, then Azazel should be seen as representative of the demonic world. The goat was returning the sins of the people to their original source, breaking whatever connection or claim the demonic had on them.

Thus, just as the high priest handed the goat over to Azazel, the high priest handed Jesus over to the Romans, the human agents of the demonic. By crucifying and hanging Jesus on a tree, the demons hoped that God would keep his word and curse Jesus. But how would God curse his innocent Son? By placing all the sins of Israel, and of the whole world on him. Thus he is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of Israel, and of the whole world.

And now his blood of the covenant covers all Israel, and all who will join themselves to Israel by being joined to her Messiah.

Paul tells us that a partial hardening has come upon Israel, so that the Gentiles will be saved. And this makes perfect sense. For if Israel had accepted their Messiah, then the Gentiles never would have been willing to believe in an obviously Jewish movement. It is only because most of Israel rejected Jesus that he looked attractive to the Gentiles. This was God’s doing, so that all will be saved. When Jesus returns, Israel will see the one they rejected and mourn, but God will turn their mourning into gladness and joy. For they are his people, and he has never rejected them, but has been with them always.

Isaiah 53, is the only place that looks like a human (righteous servant) dies as a sacrifice.

I guess that you would assume that the people speaking it Isaiah 53:1 is the Jewish people. Nevertheless that is a unscriptural assumption.

Isaiah 52:10 say: “10 The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.”

So the arm of the L-rd was reaveal to all the nations, not the Jewish people. So the Kings are talking. Without understanding who speaks in Isaiah 53, then you cannot understand who is the righteous servant. If Israel speaks, as Pauls wants you to believe, then it kinda look like it could be Jesus (even if there are insurmountable problem with that view)

But when we understand that the Kings of the nations speak, then it cannot be Jesus.

Furthermore, was Jesus crucified with rich? and thrown in a crave with wicked peoples? It’s the opposite isn’t it?

Also, Jesus never saw seeds nor prolonged is days! (seeds (zara) is always used for physical descendants, not spiritual)

To build a theology on one word “sacrifice” taken out of context, you may arrive at any conclusion!

And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand;

8 And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel.

Number 25:13 And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

See Phinehas made atonement by throwing a javelin and killing an Israelite that did what displeased the L-rd. If I take your approach on Isaiah 53 on Number 25, that means that you may atone for sins by doing what Phinehas did… Would that make sense to take ONE word out of context.

Finally, if it is the only bible verse that looks like somebody bear the atonement of others, when it is clear that you cannot atone for someone else sin, nor Jesus can atone for yours (Ezekiel 18:20), why do you use a no so clear prophecy about something that has not happened yet! Isaiah 52:13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.

Jesus, obvious was never exalted and extolled and never was very high. So part of that prophecy has not come to past either! (He will be exalted when he comes back, but that’s what Christian use as excuse for all their unfulfilled prophecies!) The new testament writers claim that Jesus atone for sin and that he was sinless. But honestly, anybody can do that claim, that does not make it true. It’s not that hard to bend a bible chapter to fit your theology.

I would suggest ISAIAH 53 from Jews for Judaism if you have more questions about that subject, but honestly, Isaiah 53 cannot be Jesus.

Concerning Isaiah 53, in order to determine who the servant is, we need to look at the context. Isaiah 49:3-6 is a good place to start.

Isaiah 49:3. And He said to me, “You are My servant, Israel, about whom I will boast.”

Isaiah 49:4. And I said, “I toiled in vain, I consumed my strength for nought and vanity.” Yet surely my right is with the Lord, and my deed is with my God.

Isaiah 49:5. And now, the Lord, Who formed me from the womb as a servant to Him, said to bring Jacob back to Him, and Israel shall be gathered to Him, and I will be honored in the eyes of the Lord, and my God was my strength.

Isaiah 49:6. And He said, “It is too light for you to be My servant, to establish the tribes of Jacob and to bring back the besieged of Israel, but I will make you a light of nations, so that My salvation shall be until the end of the earth.”

So how is this reconciled? How can Israel bring back Israel? The answer is simple! Isaiah 49:3 refers to a specific part of Israel, namely the righteous remnant. (G-d promised a righteous remnant of Israel throughout all generations.) Verse 5 refers to the remnant bringing back the rest of Israel back to righteousness. And finally, verse 6 refers to the newly restored Israel being “light to the nations” through the revelation of truth through Hashem.

In other words, this is a two step process:

1. The righteous remnant of Israel will bring back the rest of Israel to righteousness. (Isaiah 49:3-5)

2. The newly restored nation of Israel will serve to be a “light to the nations.” (Isaiah 49:6)

So ultimately, the nation of Israel is the servant who will be “a light unto the nations.” However, in order to get to that point, the righteous remnant of Israel will first gather back the rest of Israel back to Torah. It’s a two step process.

The servant is the righteous remnant of ISRAEL.

Isaiah 51:7. Hearken to Me, you who know righteousness, a people that has My Torah in their heart, fear not reproach of man, and from their revilings be not dismayed.

This is yet another verse which highlights the suffering of G-d righteous servant, Israel. Isaiah 54 even refers to the “SERVANTS of the Lord”!

Isaiah 54:17. Any weapon whetted against you shall not succeed, and any tongue that contends with you in judgment, you shall condemn; this is the heritage of the SERVANTS OF THE LORD and their due reward from Me, says the Lord.

Isaiah 52:15 describes the gentiles kings who will shut their mouths because of their astonishment of Israel’s vindication by Hashem:

Isaiah 52:15 So shall he cast down many nations; kings shall shut their mouths because of him, for, what had not been told them they saw, and [at] what they had not heard they gazed.

Micah 7:16-17 echoes this sentiment:

Micah 7:16. Nations shall see and be ashamed of all their might-they shall place a hand upon their mouth; their ears shall become deaf.

Micah 7:17. They shall lick the dust as a snake, as those who crawl on the earth. They shall quake from their imprisonment; they shall fear the Lord, our God, and they shall fear you.

Also, Isaiah 60:14 speaks of the future Israel who was previously despised by the nations as being vindicated at the end of days, also echoing in line with the suffering/despised servant of Isaiah 53:

Isaiah 60:14And the children of your oppressors shall go to you bent over, and *THOSE WHO DESPISED YOU* shall prostrate themselves at the soles of your feet, and they shall call you ‘the city of the Lord, Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

So there you have it. The suffering servant of Isaiah 53 ultimately is the nation of Israel. Please note that the Messiah is a part of Israel, too.

Shalom

Friends,

The prophecies L-rd Yeshua fulfilled are all well-documented– in today’s age of information and the internet, it really does not take much work to investigate the Truth.

We already know that:
Ω The Talmudic sages discerned that HaMashiach would come after 4,000 years of recorded history– however, in order to reject L-rd Yeshua, the rabbis found it necessary to continually revise the timeline forward.
Ω Instead, Isaiah the prophet said that the Messiah would be “the light of the Gentiles” as indeed has happened by their acceptance of L-rd Yeshua for the past 2,000 years [Isaiah 49:6]
Ω Daniel 9 definitively announces that the Messiah would come before the 2nd Temple was destroyed
Ω Malachi 3 says a messenger would come to prepare the way before the L-rd [that is, John the Baptist coming before L-rd Yeshua]– and that the L-rd Yeshua would come to the temple [the 2nd Temple].
Ω G-d say only a remnant of Israel would be saved [Isaiah 10:22]

And Wait! There’s more . . .
Ω G-d would make Jews ‘jealous’ by the Gentiles [Deuteronomy 32:21]
Ω G-d would need to teach the Jews through the Gentiles [Isaiah 1:9 and Isaiah 28:11]

And Wait! There is so, so much more to be discovered by those who seek the wisdom of G-d and search carefully through the Tanakh without callous hearts [Isaiah 6:10]

______________________________

Honestly, the proof is all there for the one who honestly comes to Elohim with their questions and seeks His face regarding Yeshua as HaMashiach.

And after all has been said, at the end of the day, each man and woman needs to make a decision what they’re going to believe:

Ω Either the Faith of Judaism invented by the rabbinate and supported by their Oral law,

OR,

Ω Elohim’s way of Faith as spoken by Moses and the Prophets and lived by the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

_____________________________

For me and the rest of the true Mashiachim, Elohim was merciful to give us the faith of Abraham and enjoy the ensuing righteous and peace inherent in the ‘sure mercies’ shown to David.

[**] Habakkuk 2:4
“Behold, as for the proud one, His soul is not right within him; But the righteous will live by his faith.”

and

[**] Genesis 15:6
“Then he believed in the L-RD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.”

and

[**] Psalm 32:1-2
“Blessed is the one
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.

Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord does not count against them
and in whose spirit is no deceit.”

Why wait until it’s too late?
[**] Zechariah 12:10 — L-rd Yeshua as the one killed, ‘pierced through’, yet made alive:

“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication.
They will look on me, the one they have pierced,
and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child,
and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.”

___________________________________

And what’s with all this disingenuous “L-rd” nonsense? I suppose it’s to make ignorant Jews think you’re so H-braic and know what you’re talking about, K-vi?

Ω The Talmudic sages discerned that HaMashiach would come after 4,000 years of recorded history– however, in order to reject L-rd Yeshua, the rabbis found it necessary to continually revise the timeline forward.

But you don’t believe the Talmudic sages, why do you use that as proof?

Ω Instead, Isaiah the prophet said that the Messiah would be “the light of the Gentiles” as indeed has happened by their acceptance of L-rd Yeshua for the past 2,000 years [Isaiah 49:6]

I agree with you, the messiah will be a light to the gentiles.

Ω Daniel 9 definitively announces that the Messiah would come before the 2nd Temple was destroyed

too long to explain, but your date does not fit anyway.
https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/answers/jewish-polemics/texts/daniel-9-a-true-biblical-interpretation/

Ω Malachi 3 says a messenger would come to prepare the way before the L-rd [that is, John the Baptist coming before L-rd Yeshua]– and that the L-rd Yeshua would come to the temple [the 2nd Temple].

Messenger “malachi” will come. There is no indication that it is John, who is not Elijah.
There is no indication that the Lord is Jesus.
You add things in the text to fit your theory

Ω G-d say only a remnant of Israel would be saved [Isaiah 10:22]

physical remnant returning to the Eretz Ysrael, not a remnant that believe in Jesus

And Wait! There’s more . . .
Ω G-d would make Jews ‘jealous’ by the Gentiles [Deuteronomy 32:21]

They have provoked My jealousy with a non god, provoked My anger with their vanities. Thus, I will provoke their jealousy with a non people, provoke their anger with a foolish nation.

ok, you want to be called a foolish nation?

Ω G-d would need to teach the Jews through the Gentiles [Isaiah 1:9 and Isaiah 28:11]

Isaiah 1:9 does not say that.

So now God will have to speak to his people through foreign oppressors who speak a strange language!

It’s hard to arrive at any conclusion with Isaiah 28:11.

And Wait! There is so, so much more to be discovered by those who seek the wisdom of G-d and search carefully through the Tanakh without callous hearts [Isaiah 6:10]

[**] Habakkuk 2:4
“Behold, as for the proud one, His soul is not right within him; But the righteous will live believe in Jesus?.”

[**] Genesis 15:6
“Then he believed in the L-RD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.”

Again Kavi!

[**] Psalm 32:1-2
“Blessed is the one
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord does not count against them
and in whose spirit is no deceit.”
Why wait until it’s too late?

Because it does not say anything about a sacrifice, as Ezekiel 18 say, if we turn from our sins, G-d will forgive!

[**] Zechariah 12:10 — L-rd Yeshua as the one killed, ‘pierced through’, yet made alive:
“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication.

The New testament does not record the Jewish people, all together morning for Jesus! Again, Jesus will come back in the clouds and all Israel WILL morn for Jesus, whom they have pierced! I thought it was the Romans? And again, you use something that has NOT happened to prove what you want. This cannot be used as a proof, it is has not happened!

+ Him and Me, and many other reason that Jim explained.

On the contrary, rabbinic Judaism does indeed create a “straw man” out of L-rd Yeshua because it has no real explanation for Him– as I described Yeshua, He does not fit into the ‘neat’ category of anything in Deuteronomy 4.

Therefore, they must ‘force’ Him to be an idol– By doing so, it may be convenient, but it does not address the Truth that Elohim is ‘Echad’ and the Ancient of Days, L-rd Yeshua, and Ruach HaKodesh are ‘Echad’.

Again,
L-rd Yeshua cannot be compared to an idol because the Mashiachim NEVER worship his ‘form’– we never worship that temporary ‘clothing’ of skin and bones.

The Mashiachim worship the Eternal One who came to earth, walked upon this earth as the Prophet likened to Moses, and who returned to heaven WITHOUT that physical body of flesh.

The true Mashiachim act just like Moses who also would not worship the ‘Temunah’ of the Ancient of Days– Moses worshipped His Essential Being, not His ‘form’

The basic decision is:

Ω Either the Law of Judaism [as invented by the rabbinate and supported by their Oral law]

OR,

Ω Elohim’s way of Faith as spoken by Moses and the Prophets and lived by the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

______________________________

Abram was a Gentile justified by faith in his Elohim– not by the Law. [Genesis 15:6]

RIGHTEOUSNESS THROUGH THE LAW OR THROUGH FAITH is what truly distinguishes the true Mashiachim from rabbinic Judaism.

_____________________________

“Jim, Kavi is probably concerned that Jews would be offended by a Gentile and Christian not omitting a letter in “Lord”. But it doesn’t occur to him that Jews are far more offended by him calling a dead man and idol “L-rd” and “G-d of Israel”

Gene, I see your point, which I hadn’t considered before, but I’m glad you used the word, “probably”, because I still don’t think I’m off the mark.

I checked out a major messianic web site from my neck of the woods and I see the same use of “L-rd” and “G-d”. Kavi is following what he’s been taught, so I concede it’s not just him personally. However, I think the upshot is the same.

We know that a huge part of the Messianic mission is specifically Jewish evangelism. That’s why the Baptist Church invented messianic Judaism and messianic “synagogues” in the first place. For the most part, these efforts target secular Jews who are probably unfamiliar with the hyphenetic convention in the first place. The informed Jew has no issue at all with “Lord”, including the ones who you say would take offense to hearing proclamations that Yeshua is G-d. (And I’m only using the hypenetic convention here so as to not combine too closely “God” with the man, and didn’t want to use lower case.)

Secondly, “Lord” appears in almost every Jewish bible, including the Hirsch, JPS, Koren and Keter Crown. There isn’t a Reconstructionist, Reform, Conservative or Orthodox Jew who would be offended by use of “Lord” because its in their Tanakh. (Artscroll translations use “Hashem” and “God” (no hypenation, interestingly, including Chabad.com). Even the “Complete Jewish Bible” and the “Orthodox Jewish Bible” don’t use “L-rd”.

So what do we have left? The use of “L-rd” is limited almost exclusively to use by messianic organizations and synagogues. What’s their reason? It’s not to avoid offending their Jewish targets. I think it’s just another part of their disguise. Dress Jewish, act Jewish, use Jewish vernacular.. It’s part self-deception and part attempt to enhance of what they think Jewish looks like (even though they don’t quite get it entirely right) — in order to lure ill-informed Jews. To look at it another way, if they weren’t trying to convert Jews, they wouldn’t be bothering with such nonsense.

Ho man, I just did the unforgivable sin, again! No way of repentance any more :)

Kavi, please look at that website. Taking prophecies out of context is not only done by Christians:

Deuteronomy 18:18 talks about Mohammed
18 I will raise up for them a prophet (Prophet) from among their brethren like you,

Psalm 45 talks about mohammed:
The beauty of the king: “You are the most excellent of men”. [Psalm 45:2]

Psalm 110:1 talks about Mohammed

Isaiah 40:3 talks about Mohammed
Of course Isaiah 42 and Daniel 7 talk about mohammed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_in_the_Bible#Genesis_49:10

See you can take any things out of context like the NT did and it can mean anything! That’s what you are doing!

I kn-w!

Friends,
Your input, as always, is truly appreciated as well as invigorating to the mind.

Why do the sages say in the Talmud that– ‘Anyone who becomes angry is like one who practices idolatry?’

Did not the One who said,
“You shall have no other gods before me.” also say,
“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”

Perhaps G-d speaks against idolatry so much because idolatry is not so much the ‘form’, but what the form represents? [refer to Maimonides]

So, when I say that neither Moses nor the true Mashiachim serve or worship ANY Temunah– can one really find fault when we find Elohim existent as the Eternal One [Echad]?

______________________________________

Catholic think it is OK to worship statues, you think it is OK to bow to Jesus. Everybody does what it is right in his own mind. Maimonides, Rashi et all would have think it is Idolatry, so does the Tanakh!

So, when I say that neither Moses nor the true Mashiachim serve or worship ANY Temunah– can one really find fault when we find Elohim existent as the Eternal One [Echad]?

You meant three isn’t it?

Shalom!

Let’s continue to explore what Elohim really considers to be idolatry:

First, Maimonides was right about at least one thing– idolatry is more than just the creation of images.

So, is it just only ‘Anger’ as the sages say?
What about Adultery?
Covetousness?
Pride?
How about ANY sin?

Ω When one sins, is it not rebellion against Elohim?

Ω When one sins, does it not indicate arrogance against the ways of Elohim?

[**] I Samuel 15:23
“For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and stubbornness is as idolatry and teraphim.”

_____________________

Idolatry and the Diaspora

If Yisrael did not continue in this properly expanded view of idolatry, G-d had promised them that the Diaspora would never occur:

[**] Deuteronomy 28:15,64-65

“However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow ALL his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:”
. . .
“Then the L-RD will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods, which neither you nor your fathers have known — wood and stone. And among those nations you shall find no rest, nor shall the sole of your foot have a resting place; but there the L-RD will give you a trembling heart, failing eyes, and anguish of soul…”

So, Yisrael was NOT sent into the Diaspora due to worshipping L-rd Yeshua– it’s because they rejected Him and held on to their own ‘Temunah’ of righteousness– the Law which neither they nor the forefathers out of Egypt could keep.

Regrettably, they preferred to trust in their own way of ‘works’ rather than trust in Elohim’s True Way of gracious Faith [Emunah] which would provide rest and peace in the ‘sure mercies of David.’ [Psalm 32:1-2]

[**] Deuteronomy 32:20
“And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very perverse generation, children in whom is no Faith [Emun].”

__________________________________

K-vi just quoted,

“Then the L-RD will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods, which neither you nor your fathers have known…”

That’s right, K-vi. And they didn’t know Jesus. He’s disqualified. To worship him is idolatry.

You know, what’s interesting to me is that you actually quoted something that has been shown to you that proves Jesus ain’t God. Yet, you quoted it anyway. And you never actually had any comment about the point, nor did you refute it. What does that mean?…. Maybe that you weren’t able to process it. You never were told how to respond to that particular objection. It’s not in the tracts and field guides you have. So you simple chose to ignore it rather than actually think.

“So, Yisrael was NOT sent into the Diaspora due to worshipping L-rd Yeshua– it’s because they rejected Him and held on to their own ‘Temunah’ of righteousness– the Law which neither they nor the forefathers out of Egypt could keep.”

Sorry Einstein, I know this is the messianic party line, which you faithfully repeat like a mindless zombie, but this is one of the most stupid things to ever come out of your mouth. (And there have been a lot of stupid things heard.)

You really do seem to have suspended any ability to think independently or clearly. In fact, you remind me very much of cult followers. I’ll bet your parents have been pretty concerned about you, friend.

You know what, boys? I think K-vi drank the Cool Aid.

“”“Then the L-RD will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods, which neither you nor your fathers have known…”
That’s right, K-vi. And they didn’t know Jesus. He’s disqualified. To worship him is idolatry. “”

You mean Jim that Isarel went in captivity and after they served other gods like Jesus, that neither them nor their fathers knew? Really, kiss the cross or kiss the sword, then some Jews decided to go with the cross and convert to Christianity… Is that really what that passage is saying. I think so! And they use that passage to prove that Israel was wrong not to accept Jesus, and was cursed because of that, when actually it is the opposite.

K-vi has shown us time after time that he does not, is not willing to, or simply is unable to think clearly about this. We earnestly want him to see our points, but do we not also see what’s happening? Do we not see that for over many weeks Kavi has not reconsidered even one of his positions, regardless of the enormous amount of evidence provided? Do you call that a discussion? Now, I have accused him in the past of going in mindless OCD circles (and I was actually serious last night about him seeming like a Moonie), but he is not doing this alone. We’re going in those circles with him.

That’s all fine if that’s what everyone wants, but I have a concern. To be sure, this is Gene’s blog not mine, and I’m sure he has a valid reason for allowing this to continue, but the fact is the Kavi discussions have virtually dominated this blog for quite some time now, and whereas before this started spinning, I used to see much broader participation here by different contributors. Now, however, there are only a few of us “debating” Kavi and it’s dominating the blog. I frankly think it is discouraging others from engaging in fruitful conversation. This is just my personal opinion, of course. Others may view it quite differently and be 100% correct.

I vote to keep him, your rebuttals have been really useful for me. But also agree with Jim that it needs to be a conversation. If not we can ignore / block him.

Kavi are you willing to converse and not doing a one-way preaching?

Maybe, we could talk of one topic at a time and one bible verse at a time. Kavi say why he thinks it’s Jesus and we explain why we think it’s not about Jesus.

The whole book of Job, his friends try to persuade Job that he sinned and that’s why he was punished by G-d. At the end, G-d vindicate righteous Job and ask Job’s friend to offer a offer a burnt offering (Job 42:7-9) for they had not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job had.

Now you may say that I am wrong. but you cannot say that the exile was cause by the rejection of Jesus. You don’t think for G-d, and G-d’s thought are higher than your thought. You can only speculate why things happened and why G-d allowed it to happened, but it’s foolish to say that the Jews were exiled because they did not accept Jesus.

K-vi, you like to ignore facts. And the facts of history are very clear: The Roman Empire accepted and accommodated Judah and even allowed more autonomy than other subject nations, including their insistence that they not be required to worship Caesar like all the rest, as long as they didn’t rebel.

The destruction and exile occurred at the height of the Roman Empire, when they were unstoppable. The Romans brutally quashed all national uprisings in the Empire and made no exception for Judah. The the Temple was destroyed and the final banishment happened in 132 CE because of Judah’s national uprisings. The Romans cracked down on Judah as with Gaul, Egypt and the rest who resisted. Those who accommodated Pax Romana lived in peace.

Is there something you just don’t get about this? Did you study world history at all? You want to ignore reality and impose a “spiritual” explanation which does not apply.

If God wanted to punish Judah, He would have had Rome destroy it without being in response to any rebellion. Is it simply coincidence that the destructions occurred immediately on the heels of the people’s acts of rebellion? No Kavi. It’s clear to anyone who knows the basics of history in the region and can think with even a little bit of reality in mind that it had nothing to do with God, and absolutely nothing to do with the idolatry of worship of Yeshua.

Hi Kavi, let’s go in order, which prophecy do you want to show us that could only be done, reasonably speaking, by Jesus? Please write one prophecy or bible verse that could explain that you worship Jesus. Then we will discuss. Please let’s not use supposition, like the fact that Israel went in exile in 70 AD. Or do you want us to go with someone else fulfilled prophecies list?

Was I so blind and followed what preachers were saying instead of checking the proof of Jesus for so long. (I guess it’s hard to check honestly if you cannot doubt!) Is there not ONE bible verse that could be seriously challenging for us? We are left with bits and pieces of words and things out of context. Every week I go to my Messianic church and they always say there is tones of evidences. What happened, why was I so blind? Where are they, that they boast so much about Jesus. They claim there was a mountain 1 out of 1200000000000000000000000000000000 that Jesus could fulfill all that! but Rabbi Skobac is right 365 times 0 equals 0. What a shame that nobody wants to listen, and would rather start an argument or go on OCD mode.

And all the lies that Christians say “Isaiah 53 was removed from the bible, The JEWS changed Virgin for young woman, etc.

So, that’s was you “deleted by moderator”. It’s kind of cowardice from Brown et all. to delete peoples comments that disagree with their belief!

Oh yeah and Dr. Brown blocked me from commenting on his “Line Of Fire” blog as well. Once you make it clear that you have read his stuff and have clear refutations of his work, he closes off conversation with you. Quite a coward and a fraud!

Probably that Dan Ben Tzvi guy eh? lol. That guy was quite an annoyance.

Friends,

It sounds as if I am not quite yet “banished” from the land– so let’s see if I can offer more variety and remain on topic.

___________________________

[*] Diaspora
My question has not been answered from an Orthodox viewpoint where Elohim is the Sovereign of His creation.

Specifically, to say that the Diaspora was ‘only’ caused by the Roman government:

Ω denies the power of G-d to control history [Daniel 2:21-23], and

Ω denies G-d’s ability to move the hearts of kings to do whatever He wishes. [Proverbs 21:1], and

Ω denies that G-d specifically addressed the conditions of the Diaspora [Deuteronomy 28]

__________________________

BTW> By popular demand, I will address Hebrews 9 and Psalm 110 in a future post :)

Yes, some individuals can attribute an entire lifetime to “life happens”– but I and many others cannot.

[] I am a cancer survivor [so far]. By the time the cancer was biopsied, I was one stage away from metastases.

“Luck”? This concept does not exist in my vocabulary except as an idolatrous word in the dictionary.

[] I have multiple disabilities.

________________________

Have I questioned G-d about these abnormalities and trials?

Yes– but I never say “life happens” because I know Adonai has purpose for everything in His creation– He always has purpose even if I have zero comprehension as to what that purpose is.

We all can learn from Job’s experience.

We can read the Words of G-d when He says to Moses,

Then the L-RD said to him,
“Who has made man’s mouth?
Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind?
Is it not I, the L-RD? [Exodus 4:11]

___________________________

If I accept a worldview that “life happens”, then yes, the reason for the Diaspora could be answered as a natural, historical event whereby the powerful overcame the weaker—that is, the Romans vanquished the Jews in 70 AD.

The difficulty is that those who are ‘more orthodox’ generally have an alternative viewpoint of the scope and power of Elohim over His creation and, therefore, cannot agree with a more limited worldview.

My question was: In light of the more expansive definition of idolatry, did not Yisrael’s continuance in idolatry ultimately force Adonai to send them into the Diaspora as prophesied in Deuteronomy 28?

If no one agrees—then it would be nice to know why from a more “orthodox” worldview.

If not—so be it.

_______________________________

Kavi here is your answer:

But he (Israel) was pained because of our (the nations) transgressions , crushed because of our iniquities.

Not because Israel sinned. Anyway, you can go in that direction if you want and continue being like Job’s friend. Unless you know G-d’s will, I would not say that Israel was sent in exile because they rejected Jesus. Or I can continue and say “no, it’s because too many accepted Jesus” as it is written in Isaiah 44 and 45:

Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer the Lord of Hosts, “I am first and I am last, and besides Me there is no God.

is there a God besides Me? And there is no rock I did not know.

I am the Lord, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God.

I am the Lord and there is no other.Who forms light and creates darkness, Who makes peace and creates evil; I am the Lord, Who makes all these.

For so said the Lord, the Creator of heaven, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, He established it; He did not create it for a waste, He formed it to be inhabited, “I am the Lord and there is no other.

Is it not I, the Lord, and there are no other gods besides Me, a just and saving God there is not besides Me..

Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth, for I am God, and there is no other.

By Myself I swore, righteousness emanated from My mouth, a word, and it shall not be retracted, that to Me shall every knee kneel, every tongue shall swear.”

@remi4321 you say you go to a Messianic Jewish group but it is not clear if they are a trinitarian group or one that really keeps to the faith of the rabbi Jeshua (Christ Jesus) who is not God but the son of God, according to Scriptures.

@blogwriter and others
The master teacher who gave his body for the sins of many is considered as the ransom offer which God accepted and opened the gates for gentiles to come to God as His children. The newly accepted ones did not take away the previously chosen ones. They, the descendants of the patriarch Abraham, the Chosen People of God, the Jews, the nation Israel stay the prefered Chosen ones. Real Christians (non-trinitarians) do accept that Jews have that prefered position, but also know that in the love of God they shall not be 2nd hand citizens. Those Christians look forward to the return of Christ, the opening of the Kingdom of God to the judged righteously, and the government of theocracy from the kingdom’s capital Jerusalem.

“In his anger, Moses committed idolatry when he struck the rock to bring forth water for the rebellious house of Yisrael.”

Wrong interpretation.

First of all, your remarks seem imply that Moshe was purposefully attempting to become the object of idolatry himself. You, because you think Jesus is greater than Moshe, don’t understand that Moshe would NEVER do such a thing. If this is your point, then it is nothing less than ignorant and stupid thinking. (And, thanks to Donald Trump, “stupid” is the word of the week, and you will see it used here several times.)

Remember the serpent mounted on a staff which effected a cure from snake bites when gazed at? Later, Hezekiah destroyed it because people began to worship it. It’s no accident that the stories of Moshe striking the rock and the Nehushtan are adjacent each other. In Num 20:8, you see that God instructed Moshe to take his rod, yet He told him to order the rock to yield water, not to use the rod. That’s seems odd at first. Why would that be? The answer is so that the people would not begin to worship the rod, as they later began to worship the Nehushtan. So Moshe’s sin was that his temper got the best of him, as it tended to do, and he forgot God’s instruction in the moment and struck the rock with the rod out of habit. Moshe sinned by not following God’s instructions, and the problem is that God wanted to use the event to show the people that the power came from Him, not from any object. This was why Moshe received the severe punishment.

And more severe punishment awaits Jews who worship a man.

——————–

“Chava was deceived by satan and Adam rebelled against the Almighty by eating of the forbidden fruit in an attempt to make themselves into their own gods”

Wrong interpretation.

“And the serpent said unto the woman: ‘Ye shall not surely die; for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil.”

The serpent didn’t say that she would have power like God — that she would be able to create a universe, establish laws, provide salvation, etc. Only that her eyes would be opened and that she would be able to discern between good and evil. But this was tertiary for Eve anyway, as the text tells us. First she realized it was good for eating, secondly she was attracted by how it looked, and then thirdly she wanted wisdom. She was not trying to be God, nor was Adam.

——————————

“Idolatry is just a few steps down that path, after man allows himself to sinfully entertain his fantasies as truths.”

Oh yes, that is so true. Like what messianic Jews do, believing in the fantasy of Jesus as though it’s true.

And here is something that Rabbi Moshe Ben-Chaim also said, in an interview of his commentary on Maimonides:

“The spread of Christianity may have brought about awareness, but a false one at that, and one that all nations will ultimately see as false, as the quote says, “…immediately they all will retract and will know that fallacy they inherited from their fathers, and that their prophets and fathers caused them to err.” Look at Maimonides’ opening words: “…Can there be a greater stumbling block than this (Christianity)? Also, “and this (one, i.e., Jesus) caused the Jews to be destroyed by the sword, and scattered their remnants and humbled them, and exchanged the Torah, and caused the majority of the world to err to serve a god other than the Lord. Christianity was pure evil.”

Seems like R. Ben Chaim is not your best friend here.

———————————-

“Again, turn back the clock to the height of the power of the Law just prior to 70 AD where we have…”

In fact, if you knew your history you would know that by this time Hellenism and Roman control had taken over the Temple. The high priest’s sacramental clothing, required for the Day of Atonement, was kept locked up and held hostage by the Romans. The Sadducees had become Roman puppets by the time of Jesus. Oh yeah — and more Jews were beginning to believe in Jesus. In fact Paul lived out his entire life and converted Jews to his delusional fantasies before the Destruction came. If there are spiritual reasons for the destruction, then they are these.

You wish to ignore the fact that Jerusalem rebelled during a major uprising in 68 – 70 CE, and the Romans responded in kind — as they did everywhere else! Hello!

—————————

The State of Israel was re-established in 1947 — long before the more recent trend of some Jews to become Christian and worship Jesus. Therefore, your theory that the diaspora was God’s punishment for “failure” of Jews to accept Jesus is disproven by this event. Secondly, there is no evidence that the remaining Jews who were not destroyed in the Holocaust repented and began to live religiously righteous lives — most were secular. This is the second proof that your theory is way off the mark.

————————-

“The conclusion appears to be that Elohim demands a Holiness that cannot be achieved through the Law.”

Wrong interpretation. Again. This conclusion is a myth, started by the delusional Paul.

If man could not achieve holiness through the law, then what was God doing and thinking when he gave the Law and said “Be holy for I am holy.” Was God as delusional as Paul? If it were not possible to be holy through the law then was it simply a game God was playing? And if it was His plan to bring Jesus for salvation, then why did He wait so long? Why would He even bother with revelation at Sinai, Torah, Temple, etc? Your “conclusion” comes from Paul and his own delusional musings and conclusions. And really — how stupid can anyone be to believe Paul over God???

——————–

Here’s another surprise for those who think Paul knew what he was talking about: God does NOT expect perfection!

If someone sins, there are consequences. Some sins deserve death, some “karet”, others the payment of fines, etc. All sins contaminated the land, especially the tabernacle (and later, the Temple). The blood sacrifices were used to decontaminate the holy places (the altar, tent of meeting, Holy of Holies, etc.) Blood was NOT used to decontaminate persons, except in a couple of very limited circumstances — namely purifying Aaron’s sons in establishing the generational priesthood, and putting the life back into those who were recovering from scale disease (leprosy), which was considered to be something like death.

People themselves were cleansed by paying for their sins by death or other punishments, and by repentance. Any and ALL remaining sin was transferred onto the scapegoat and removed when it was sent into the wilderness once a year on the Day of Atonement.

—————————

God knows that man is not and will never be perfect. He has provided a standard for Jews to strive by, and the ability to repent and atone for his sins on a daily and annual basis when he stumbles. It is an ongoing process. That is God’s way.

NOT your fantasy man-god Jesus. That is true idolatry.

So put away all your Hebrew sounding names and words, because those belong to Jews, not idolaters.

And as always, I have challenged Kavi multiple times to demonstrate to us where Hashem instructs us to worship the jeezer as a god. Of course, Kavi has completely ignored this challenge, and has instead diverted the conversation to strawman arguments. This is no surprise, but it astounds me how he keeps digging himself deeper and deeper into his hole of falsehood. If Kavi’s understanding that a belief in yeshu was so essential to our salvation and our righteousness before Hashem, you’d be best be able to back it up using the Tanach, showing us where Hashem told us to worship yeshu as a god. Since Kavi knows it isn’t there, he will continue to take us on his jeezer angel hunts and he will continue to contextually abuse passages and try and argue that we must worship G-d as some sort of man. (Chas V’Shalom.)

But Kavi couldn’t care less with G-d has to say to Israel concerning what He expects of us…Kavi couldn’t care less about G-d telling Israel in Deuteronomy 30:10-14 that we CAN fulfill Torah through our observance of the commandments as a nation. Kavi also doesn’t care that G-d explicitly tells Israel not to worship Him in ANY FORM including man, in Deuteronomy 4:9-19. All Kavi cares about is his false idol, the jeezer, and abusing the context of the Tanach in order to falsely justify his idolatrous beliefs.

But unfortunately for Kavi, G-d is not on his side! G-d’s explicit commands and expectations for Israel are quite clear, both in Deuteronomy 4 and Deuteronomy 30. Both of these chapters in Torah are antithetical to the core christian understanding of the jeezer in the NT.

I’m not expecting Kavi to respond to what I wrote. I fully expect him to ramble on about another passage and contextually abuse it, as usual. Kavi will never respond to my challenge because he knows he has not foundation for his beliefs about jesus. The Tanach does not give credence to jesus as a god or even as the Messiah.

But Kavi couldn’t care less what G-d has to say on the matter…That much is crystal clear!

And a real shame…

Shalom

“The feeling that they are close to, and have a personal relationship with, God. ”

During my talk with a Messianic Jew this week end, he told me that he went to synagogues and that it is dead. For most of the time, synagogue repeat prayers in Hebrew. In a sense, I understood what he meant, I have been to synagogue before, it’s not like the usually church / MJC, singing to their Jesus and clapping their hand. It has been a tactic for MJ to encourage people to go there, I am sure, but did you ever had someone telling you that argument. (I almost feel like I should go to a Sikh temple just to prove that other false religion are really lively!)

What do you usually answer?

Remi,

You have touched on what I have considered for some time now to be a significant issue within the Jewish community, and maybe the most important reason so many Jews remain unaffiliated or disaffected.

I have been to church services many times (not for myself, but like you, for my wife) and the focus and experience is very different than in the typical synagogue. Compared to lively church services, synagogue services can indeed seem dead. But there are a few distinctions to be made.

First of all, in the church services I’ve been to, the pastor leads the entire service. I will take it further: The pastor doesn’t just lead the service, he is the service. The congregation follows his selection of hymns, which vary from week to week, singing along to the lyrics provided (either in books or on a projection screen). They listen to his sermon, which is usually the key event. They come to the front and receive communion from him. There is often live music, playing tunes which are of course approved by him. The pastor is the spiritual guide, director and performer. Everyone’s along on his ride.

In contrast, Jewish services usually follow liturgy that is for the most part standardized within each denomination, and each week the core is repeated. Some synagogues mix it up more, others less. Usually, as you go from more liberal to more conservative congregations (e.g., from Reconstructionist to Chabad), you find more Hebrew, more structure, more standardization, and less music. Orthodox services are usually the repetition of the same liturgy every week, with additions or subtractions made depending on the dates of holy days, festivals, etc. All is in Hebrew except for the Rabbi’s d’var. For someone popping in, that can certainly seem dead.

In general, the focus in the synagogue is less about celebration and song, and more about personal prayer and community. In Christianity, it’s all about one’s individual relationship with God (except perhaps within the Eastern Orthodox Church), but in Judaism it’s much more about the community’s relationship with God. The siddur usually speaks in terms of “we” and “us”, not “me”.

Judaism is a community experience. We were not evangelized one at a time. We stood together, six million of us, at Sinai and witnessed Revelation as a people. So when someone pops in to a synagogue for a couple of hours to see if their heart strings get plucked, like going to see the latest action movie, they are completely missing the most important part of the Jewish spiritual experience — community. Hashem dwells among His congregation.

Even if someone doesn’t understand Hebrew, they can still connect with the Rabbi’s d’var. And if they like the Rabbi, they should start to attend regularly. They should consciously strive to make friends and become part of the congregation. When you feel really plugged into and part of a congregation, that’s when you begin to understand and experience the spirituality of Jewish life.

The problem is, many synagogues, more so the orthodox and conservative, don’t include a portion of the service geared toward unpracticed visitors. I think that’s a mistake.

I heartily agree with the Law– IF YOU CAN DO IT!!

And that’s the catch– no one has ever been able to fulfill the requirements of the Law [except Yeshua].

Even Moses could not fulfill the requirements of the Law– if he had, G-d would have allowed him to enter the Land of Promise.

Instead, Moses gained his righteousness through His Faith/Emunah [“it is in your mouth and in your heart” – Deuteronomy 30:14]

So, please just answer the question without even consideration of Yeshua— WHO will admit they have as achieved as much ‘righteousness’ under the Law as the Tannaim?

BTW> Perhaps some of you should re-examine your idolatrous [i.e., angry] posts? I myself never get angry even when some of you have called me, let’s say, rather ‘less than flattering’, names?

_________________________

Kavi says the darndest things!

“And that’s the catch– no one has ever been able to fulfill the requirements of the Law [except Yeshua].”

Really Kavi? Did your “yeshua” fulfill the female requirements of niddah? Did your “yeshua” have a period? I’d say that is a more miraculous feat than a resurrection or a virgin birth! Why didn’t your NT mention jesus’s period!?

Did your “yeshua’ fulfill the requirements of Levitical priests? Was jesus even a Levite at all?!

This is a demonstration of how christians have no idea what observing Torah really means. Observing Torah is a requirement for the nation. Each individual person, male, female, Levite, Judahite, Ephraimite etc. has their own potential to fulfill Torah in their own capacity. The requirement to fulfill Torah was never dependent on us being “completely sinless.” Each person has their own individual capacity to reach their potential and only Hashem knows that potential. It is the responsibility of the nation of Israel to come together to fulfill Torah in each of our own individual capacities.

The christians like Kavi have bastardized the idea of what it means to “fulfill Torah” and have said that it can only mean that a “sinless man” can “fulfill Torah” for us. Hashem never tells us this in the Tanach. Rather, Hashem tells us clearly in Deuteronomy 30:10-14 that WE CAN FULFILL TORAH. It’s G-d’s word against yours Kavi…I would be worried if I were you…

So Kavi sits here telling us that his jeezer “fulfilled Torah” by being “sinless.” This is another baseless claim, that is absurdly foolish. Were you watching the jeezer when he was a toddler, Kavi? Were you watching him with a camera, overseeing his every move? Can you give any evidence to show us that your jeezer was absolutely “sinless” other than baseless testaments in the NT? Do you think matthew, mark, luke, and john stalked the jeezer all his life and made sure he never sinned? Do you think they made sure he never lied to his parents? Do you think they hooked up a thought machine to his mind and determined whether or not he had adulterous thoughts?

So keep going around calling your jeezer “sinless,” Kavi…Unsubstantiated claims do nothing but make you look more foolish…Keep going around telling me that the jeezer “fulfilled” Psalms 110 and Daniel 7:13 with his make believe “kingdom” that he never had. Keep telling me that your jeezer’s death “fulfilled” Daniel 9 and Isaiah 53 and that sin is atoned for, despite the fact that sin still exists in the world today.

Kavi is a car salesman trying to sell us a car with a broken engine. But when we challenge him and tell him that the car is broken, Kavi refuses to turn on the ignition and instead rambles on about how great other parts of the car are. Sometimes he will even talk about other cars and try and discredit them.

But Kavi won’t turn on the ignition because he knows if he does, his broken car will be exposed as such. Your jeezer is a broken car, Kavi. You can pretend like it runs and does what you say it should do, but at the end of the day, your jeezer is an empty shell of falsehood, analogous to a broken car. Your jeezer’s death did not ultimately atone for sin and our belief in him has no effect on our salvation.

So please Kavi, do yourself a favor and stop selling your broken car. We’ve already gotten the BBB involved. Your reputation as a “salvation” salesman has been tarnished. Don’t expect to be getting any more business, except maybe from some desperate ignoramuses…

Shalom

Interesting–

A couple conclusions based on avoiding the obvious [Remi excepted]:

[a] Moses committed the sin of idolatry because his anger was apparently not ‘righteous’ and G-d rejected him from entering the Land of Promise.

[b] No one will admit they keep the Law as well as the Tannaim

[c] G-d PROMISED Yisrael that there would be no Diaspora if they obeyed the Law– they didn’t and G-d was forced to use Rome to send them into exile [Deuteronomy 28; Daniel 2]

These are all black and white comments that have nothing to do with Yeshua– why raise so much fuss since all these statements are true?

Curious . . .
________________________

BTW> Does not Ezekiel 20 restate the same [along with another interesting fact regarding the Law]:

I also gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not live;” [Ezekiel 20:23-25]

________________________

Now Kavi is intrigued by the exile we are currently in. This was prophesied in Hosea 3:4-5.

Hosea 3:4. For the children of Israel shall remain for many days, having neither king, nor prince, nor sacrifice, nor pillar, nor ephod nor seraphim.

Hosea 3:5. Afterwards shall the children of Israel RETURN, and seek the Lord their God and David their king, and they shall come trembling to the Lord and to His goodness at the end of days.

How do we return to Hashem if we do not have any sacrifices? Hosea tells us in Hosea 14:2-3!

Hosea 14:2. RETURN, O Israel, to the Lord your God, for you have STUMBLED IN YOUR INIQUITY.

Clearly, the subject of the next verse explains HOW Israel is supposed to RETURN to Hashem so that OUR INIQUITIES WILL BE FORGIVEN. Of course, the next verse explains just that!

Hosea 14:3 Take WORDS with yourselves and RETURN TO THE LORD. Say, “YOU SHALL FORGIVE ALL INIQUITY and teach us [the] good [way], and let us render [for] bulls [the offering of] our lips.

Even though we have stumbled in our iniquity and have been put into exile, we still have a means of returning to Hashem though our sincere PRAYERS. We take our words and return to Hashem by saying; “FORGIVE ALL INIQUITY.” Nothing in Hosea 14:2-3 indicates that we need the blood of animals in order to atone for our sins during the exile. And most importantly, NOTHING in Hosea 14:2-3 says we need the blood of jesus!

This is why Daniel was able to stand righteous before Hashem, praying three times a day, despite the fact that he knew he would be thrown into a pit of lions if he continued to do so. Yet he continued to do so in the face of death! (Daniel 6:11)

The Torah itself also gives us instructions as to what to do if we are in exile and we have no means of giving sacrifices in the Temple or Mishkan. Leviticus 26:38-43 elaborates:

Leviticus 26:38 You will become lost among the nations, and the land of your enemies will
consume you.

Leviticus 26:39 And because of their iniquity, those of you who survive will rot away in the lands of your enemies; moreover, they will rot away because the iniquities of their fathers are still within them

Leviticus 26:40 **THEY WILL CONFESS THEIR INIQUITY and the iniquity of their fathers** their betrayal that they dealt Me, and that they also treated Me as happenstance.

Leviticus 26:41 Then I too, will treat them as happenstance and bring them [back while] in the land of their enemies. If then, their clogged heart becomes humbled, then, [their sufferings] will gain appeasement for their iniquity,

Leviticus 26:42 and I will remember My covenant [with] Jacob, and also My covenant [with] Isaac, and also My covenant [with] Abraham I will remember. And I will remember the Land,

Leviticus 26:43[For] the Land will be bereft of them, appeasing its sabbaticals when it had been desolate of them, **AND THEY WILL GAIN APPEASEMENT FOR THEIR INIQUITY.** This was all in retribution for their having despised My ordinances and in retribution for their having rejected My statutes.

We know that the prophet Daniel confessed his iniquity and the iniquity of his forefathers multiple times during the exile according to the Book of Daniel. And just as Leviticus 26:38-43 explains, Israel was gathered back to the land by Hashem.

If the Jewish people did not need “jesus blood/death” to merit going back to the land of Israel and the rebuilding of the Holy Temple during the first exile, then why would we need it now?!

We don’t!

We don’t need your “jesus blood,” Kavi. The Tanach is clear on this!

So keep your jeezer blood fetish to yourself.

Shalom

Shalom!

Let’s switch gears and try to work through Remi’s question logically:

[a] Since the Tanna, Yochanen ben Zakkai, was exemplary in following the Law and yet even he could not in honest conscience “know” whether HaShem would judge him worthy of Gehenna or not– why should I or anyone else turn to Rabbinic Judaism?

[b] Since Moses states plainly that his righteousness was gained through Faith/Emunah and not by works of the Law [“it is in your mouth and in your heart” – Deuteronomy 30:14]– why should I or anyone else place our hope in the Law?

[c] Therefore, since the Law cannot save and Faith does, we must ask– what does Elohim expect us to believe?

Ω Moses wrote that a Redeemer would one day come to crush the power of sin and the power of sins author, satan [Genesis 3]

Ω Moses also admitted he would not be unique– for one day G-d would raise up a Prophet like himself and that G-d gave an oath that anyone who did not listen to this future Prophet would face judgment: “It shall come about that whoever will not listen to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him.” [Deuteronomy 18:19]

Ω And, for all true Mashiachim [Jew and Gentile], Isaiah 53 states more than plainly that this Redeemer will die on behalf of mankind to cleanse them of sin. [note: there are whole websites devoted to Isaiah 53– I can go into detail, but anyone can do their own research.]

[d] So, Who is this Redeemer / Prophet that G-d would send from heaven into the world and into the seed of a woman to “save” mankind from their sins?

“His name is”:
Ω “G-d Saves”
Ω Yeshua / Yehoshuah
Ω ישוע / יהושוע

BTW> When I say “Shalom”, that’s what the Basar brings to those who hear and receive the ‘good news’– a full, complete Peace between Elohim and mankind because redemption is graciously granted to those who have Faith in Yeshua for forgiveness of sins.

Kavi,

Peter,

Deut 18:15-19 refers to Joshua in the immediate context and all subsequent prophets after him. Lets look at Deut 18:15 and 18:18 more closely:

Deut 18:15 [Moses speaking] “The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet **LIKE ME** from among you, from your countrymen, you shall listen to him…

Ok, so now we need to establish the context of what it means to be “LIKE” Moses. Verse 18 establishes this context concerning this particular chapter:

Deut 18:18 [God speaking] ‘I will raise up a prophet from among their countrymen **LIKE YOU,** [Like Moses] **and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.**

So what does it mean to be LIKE Moses in this context? Simple! All at it means is that the prophet will SPEAK THE WORDS THAT GOD COMMANDS HIM. That’s all! Now, what prophet do we know in the Bible who fits this description?

Every prophet in the Bible speaks the word of God…That’s the definition of a prophet!

So who does this apply to? ALL PROPHETS! But in the immediate context, it applies to Joshua, since he was Moses’s successor. The Book of Joshua gives us explicit proof of this:

Joshua 1:5. No man shall stand up before you all the days of your life; as I was with Moses, so shall I be with you. I will not weaken My grasp on you nor will I abandon you.

Joshua 1:16. And they answered Joshua saying: All that you have commanded us we shall do and wherever you send us we shall go.

Joshua 1:17. Just as we obeyed Moses in everything, so shall we obey you. Only that the Lord your God be with you as He was with Moses.

Joshua 3:7. And the Lord said to Joshua: This day I will begin to make you great in the sight of all Israel, that they may know that as I was with Moses, so will I be with you.

Joshua 4:14. On that day the Lord made Joshua great in the sight of all Israel, and they feared him, as they had feared Moses, all the days of his life.

Joshua 11:15. As the Lord commanded Moses His servant, so did Moses command Joshua, and so did Joshua; he left nothing undone of all that the Lord commanded Moses.

I would argue that there is no prophet in the entire Bible who is compared to Moses as much as Joshua. However, this prophesy is not specific to just one prophet!

We can also use grammatical consistency to demonstrate that Deut 18:18 does not refer to only one prophet, but rather, the general concept of “prophets” who succeeded Moses. Lets look at the verses again:

Deut 18:17. And the Lord said to me, “They have done well in what they have spoken.

Deut 18:18. I will set up a prophet for them from among their brothers like you, and I will put My words into his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him.

Deut 18:19. And it will be, that whoever does not hearken to My words that he speaks in My name, I will exact [it] of him.

These verses describe “the prophet like Moses” who you deem to be one singular individual, namely, the Messiah. (Or in your case, Jesus.) Knowing this, lets keep reading on:

Deut 18:20. But the prophet who intentionally speaks a word in My name, which I did not command him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.

Deut 18:21. Now if you say to yourself, “How will we know the word that the Lord did not speak?”

Deut 18:22. If the prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, and the thing does not occur and does not come about, that is the thing the Lord did not speak. The prophet has spoken it wantonly; you shall not be afraid of him.

Look at words. Look at the grammar concerning the fact that both “the prophet like Moses” and “the false prophet” are referred to in the third person SINGULAR.

If we are to be grammatically consistent with your interpretation of Deut 18:18, namely that “the prophet like Moses” only refers to one singular person, shouldn’t we also interpret Deut 18:20-22 in the same way concerning “the false prophet”? Shouldn’t we also say that there will only be “one false prophet”? If you want to be grammatically consistent with the passage, this is really your only option. Do you really want to interpret Deut 18:20-22 as referring to only one false prophet? Surely not!

I get that you want to force this passage to exclusively refer to the Messiah. However, this is clearly not the case.

Shalom

And Kavi, your question concerning Yochanan ben Zakkai is missing the point of what Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakkai was conveying. Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakkai was demonstrating his humility and honestly before Hashem that ONLY HASHEM KNOWS THE FATE OF US! None of us can say with 100% confidence that we know exactly what our fate will be when we die. Any human being who makes such a claim is a fool. Only Hashem knows our fate and Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakkai was demonstrating this fact. Only Hashem knows our true potential. Some people in this world are born without arms. How are they supposed to perform the mitzvah of putting on teffilin? Some people are born without being able to talk. How are they supposed to pray to Hashem? Only Hashem knows their hearts and what their potential truly is, and for anyone to claim “I know my fate when I die” is to be an arrogant fool.

And Kavi, you never cease to amaze me at your relentless contextual abuse of the Torah. You tried to isolate Deuteronomy 30:14 and try and make it all about “faith.” I showed you the context of these verses in Deuteronomy 30:10-14 and all you did was put on your jeezer glasses and say “OH IT’S ABOUT FAITH! THIS ISN’T ABOUT THE LAW AT ALL!”

Except you skipped right over Deuteronomy 30:10, which I posted earlier in context with verse 14…

Deut 30:10. when you obey the Lord, your God, to observe His commandments and His statutes WRITTEN IN THIS TORAH SCROLL, [and] when you return to the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul.

WHEN YOU OBEY THE LORD, YOUR G-D, TO OBSERVE HIS COMMANDMENTS AND HIS STATUTES WRITTEN IN THIS TORAH SCROLL

WHEN YOU OBEY THE LORD, YOUR G-D, TO OBSERVE HIS COMMANDMENTS AND HIS STATUTES WRITTEN IN THIS TORAH SCROLL

WHEN YOU OBEY THE LORD, YOUR G-D, TO OBSERVE HIS COMMANDMENTS AND HIS STATUTES WRITTEN IN THIS TORAH SCROLL

Get it Kavi? Or do I have to write it out for you 100 times until you get it?!

Kavionony 30:10 when you have faith in the jeezer, your god and messiah, that he died for you on the cross and will come back someday with all your heart and soul.

You wish that’s what it said Kavi. But that’s not what it says.

You really need to go back to school Kavi…You clearly don’t comprehend language or understand anything about context.

Either that or you are a delusional fool…Or a pathological liar…One of the three.

Shalom

Kavi, keeping the law does not save. What does the L-rd requires of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
But as for me, I watch in hope for the LORD (not Jesus), I wait for God my Savior (YHVH, not Jesus); my God will hear me.
See, we trust and hope in YHVH and because we trust, we want to do what pleases Him. For Jews, it would be keeping the Law. As for me, I can’t right now, nor am I obliged to do it. But we hope in Him, not in man, and we trust in Him. We keep what He say, for Jews, it is the whole Torah, for the nations, it is worship G-d alone.

Kavi, thank you for allowing me the opportunity to destroy your arguments for the umpteenth time and demonstrate to all the viewing audience on this blog how stupid your position is and how your jeezer is a false messiah and god!

1. Do you like ignoring my responses, Kavi? You completely ignored my rebuttal to your position that Moses only speaks of one prophet. Let me post it again for you.

We can also use grammatical consistency to demonstrate that Deut 18:18 does not refer to only one prophet, but rather, the general concept of “prophets” who succeeded Moses. Lets look at the verses again:

Deut 18:17. And the Lord said to me, “They have done well in what they have spoken.

Deut 18:18. I will set up a prophet for them from among their brothers like you, and I will put My words into his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him.

Deut 18:19. And it will be, that whoever does not hearken to My words that he speaks in My name, I will exact [it] of him.

These verses describe “the prophet like Moses” who you deem to be one singular individual, namely, the Messiah. (Or in your case, Jesus.) Knowing this, lets keep reading on:

Deut 18:20. But the prophet who intentionally speaks a word in My name, which I did not command him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.

Deut 18:21. Now if you say to yourself, “How will we know the word that the Lord did not speak?”

Deut 18:22. If the prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, and the thing does not occur and does not come about, that is the thing the Lord did not speak. The prophet has spoken it wantonly; you shall not be afraid of him.

Look at words. Look at the grammar concerning the fact that both “the prophet like Moses” and “the false prophet” are referred to in the third person SINGULAR.

If we are to be grammatically consistent with your interpretation of Deut 18:18, namely that “the prophet like Moses” only refers to one singular person, shouldn’t we also interpret Deut 18:20-22 in the same way concerning “the false prophet”? Shouldn’t we also say that there will only be “one false prophet”? If you want to be grammatically consistent with the passage, this is really your only option. Do you really want to interpret Deut 18:20-22 as referring to only one false prophet? Surely not!

I get that you want to force this passage to exclusively refer to the Messiah. However, this is clearly not the case.

Try ignoring my response to you again, Kavi…Just try again and see where it lands you…I’ve had enough of your disingenuous effort to acknowledge my clear refutations of your false dead man on a stick you call your messiah and god.

Moving on to your 3rd point, Kavi…You claim this concerning Genesis 3:15

“When Miryam conceived, Yeshua the Creator directly joined Himself to one of her ovum and therefore was able to cloth himself with flesh and bone.
In doing so, our Redeemer Yeshua made Himself able to become our ‘near kinsman’.”

Your Genesis 3:15 argument is laughable, Kavi. I’ve heard it many many times…
There is nothing unique about this verse implying a “virgin birth” as you falsely claim.

Evidence to support this comes from Genesis 16:10, where an angel says this to Hagar:
Genesis 16:10 And the angel of the Lord said to her, **”I will greatly multiply your seed,** and it will not be counted for abundance.”

So if women “do not have seed” as you claim, then what do you make of Hagar?
Did she have a “virgin birth” too?

Obviously not…You’re using eisegisis to force your explanation of Genesis 3:15. It has nothing to do with your supposed “virgin birth” that your false NT claims of jesus in your false book of matthew…

Shalom

And back to Psalms 110…Which Kavi never gave any explanation for except “the jeezer said so.”

I am confused why you come to the conclusion that the Melchizedek priesthood relates exclusively to your jeezer…I am not convinced that it refers to your jeezer at all…But I have no problem with it having a Messianic connotation to it as well.

One of the most striking commonalities between King David and Abraham is that they both “crushed kings” with the help of Hashem. This directly correlates with Psalms 110:5, which explicitly states this:

Psalms 110:5. The Lord, on your right hand, *has crushed kings* on the day of His wrath.

Now Kavi, during your jeezer’s lifetime, did jesus “crush kings”? Was he successful in defeating his enemies? Were his enemies “made a footstool at his feet”? (Psalms 110:1) Clearly not! Your jesus/yeshua was killed and failed to fulfill the Messianic prophesies outlined in the Tanach. As it stands, jesus has fulfilled none of Psalms 110 in any tangible sense. You can argue that he will fulfill it in his supposed “second coming,” but to claim that jesus has fulfilled any of this Psalm would be completely baseless as it stands…

Another oddity about your understanding about this “Melchizedek priesthood” is that you believe that jesus’s/yeshua’s bloodshed “atoned for the sins of the world.” Where in the Tanach does it state that the Melchizedek priesthood achieves atonement via the blood sacrifice? The only priesthood that was given this divine instruction that I know of was the Levitical priesthood…If you could find a passage in the Tanach which states that the “Melchizedek priesthood” achieves atonement via “blood sacrifice,” then maybe your position would make a little more sense. But as it stands, you appear to be baselessly asserting that this Melchizedek priesthood has “superior atoning power” in comparison to the Levitical priesthood, when there is nothing in the Tanach that indicates that the Melchizedek priesthood deals with blood atonement at all! I hope you will consider these concerns.

(and looking at your track record, you will ignore this post entirely, as I have posted it several times on this blog directly challenging you on this issue…)

Kavi the Koward…That’ll go down in the books! ;-)

And Kavi, Hosea 3:4-5 doesn’t work in your favor…I don’t know how you could post this and think that it does:

Hosea 3:4 For the children of Israel shall remain for many days, having neither king, nor prince, nor sacrifice, nor pillar, nor ephod nor seraphim.

Hosea 3:5 Afterwards shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God and David their king, and they shall come trembling to the Lord and to His goodness **AT THE END OF DAYS.**

Kavi, notice that nothing in the passage says that David (The Messiah) must come before this exile and then reappear at the end of days. Rather, the text only explicitly mentions the fact that the Messiah will come at the end of days. Your position that there be some sort of “first coming” before the final exile has no foundation in the Tanach.

Also, you claim that the prophets claim that the Messiah is “divine.” On the contrary, in the Messianic verse that I just posted, (Hosea 3:5) there is a clear distinction made between the Messiah and G-d:

Hosea 3:5 Afterwards shall the children of Israel return, and ***seek the Lord their God AND DAVID THEIR KING,**

Note the distinction made between “the Lord their G-d” AND “David their king.” Hosea did not say that “David their king” is actually synonymous with “the Lord their G-d.” Rather, Hosea made a clear distinction between the two.

Thus, you have no foundation for the worship of your jesus.

Shalom

Kavi, it’s ironic that you put such an emphasis on the יִכָּרֵת מָשִׁיחַ part of Daniel 9:26, claiming that it was because of the “cutting off” of this “moshiach” that was the initiator of the “sixfold changes” mentioned in Daniel 9:24, including the “end of transgression/sin.”

You obviously identify this “cutting off” of this “moshiach” with the death of jesus…But what I find ironic about this is that jesus’s death did not accomplish any of the “sixfold promises” mentioned in Daniel 9:24!

Daniel 9:24. Seventy weeks [of years] have been decreed upon your people and upon the city of your Sanctuary to terminate the transgression and to end sin, and to expiate iniquity, and to bring eternal righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies.

Did any of these things happen after your jesus died, Kavi? Has iniquity been erased from Israel as this verse states concerning “your people”? (Which refer’s to Israel, Daniel’s people.) Do you still sin?

We both know that jesus’s death accomplished none of this…

So the question becomes, why in the world would you associate the promises of Daniel 9:24 with jesus’s death?! It is clear that jesus’s death did not accomplish any of these promises of the end of transgression among Israel or any other people.

So why do you insist that jesus must be this “moshiach” mentioned in Daniel 9:26?

It is interesting to note that Jews and Christians can agree on other passages referring exclusively to the Messiah! Here are a few:

Isaiah 11:1. And a shoot shall spring forth from the **STEM OF JESSE,** and a twig shall sprout from his roots.

Ezekiel 37:24. And **MY SERVANT DAVID** shall be king over them, and one shepherd shall be for them all, and they shall walk in My ordinances and observe My statutes and perform them.

Hosea 3:5. Afterwards shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God and **DAVID THEIR KING,** and they shall come trembling to the Lord and to His goodness at the end of days.

Jeremiah 30:9. And they shall serve the Lord their God and **DAVID THEIR KING,** whom I will set up for them.

There is one thing all of these verses have in common: They all use a “Davidic qualifier,” meaning that they all exclusively refer to the Davidic dynasty in some fashion. This is a good reason why Jews and Christians can all understand that these future prophesies refer to one person: Moshiach ben David.

But Daniel 9:24-27, nor the rest of the chapter, give us any indication that this “moshiach” mentioned has any connection to the Davidic dynasty, at least at face value…This lend credibility to the Jewish position that this “moshiach who was cut off” in Daniel 9:26 is not the promised Messiah son of David who is spoken of in the four aforementioned passages above that both Jews and Christians agree refer to the specific individual called “Moshiach ben David.”

In fact, the word “moshiach” is NEVER used to exclusively refer to the individual of “Moshiach ben David” in the Tanach…Ever! Usually, the individual of Moshiach ben David is referred to as “David” or “melech/king.”

So your interpretation of Daniel 9:26 actually runs contradictory to the rest of scripture…

Shalom

Shalom!

Wow. That was certainly a lot there.. Well, thank you for your interesting thoughts. It’s so nice to see you read from the Tanakh.

As you can see, I am remaining completely calm… despite the fact that some people here

Are using really naughty language!!

Ahem. However,

[**] We can clearly conclude that L-ord Yeshua ben-David is HaMaschiah and Hashem (who crawled into Mother Mary’s you-know-what one night), for whom the true Mashiachim [still] await.

K-vi

“Moses speaks of only one Prophet– any other interpretation is simply beyond the peshat.”

Yes of course Kavi, we all know it’s Mohammed, oups. Sorry, John Smith. Oups sorry Jesus!

There no indication if you take it in the singular who will be that prophet, and so many claimed to be that prophet.

I just have one question for Isaiah 53. I can conclude that Isaiah 53:1 are the nation because of Isaiah 52:10 and 52:15, why would you interpret it as Isarael speakin. Seriously, I do not see any reason why, is there a bible verse that you can link. If it’s the nation speakin, it cannot be Jesus. All chrsitian I know will tell me it’s Israel, and nobody tells me one reason why it’s Irsrael!

And by the way, for everybody, Isaiah 53 was not removed from the hafdavar, it never was their. I am sick of people saying it was removed! Please check your facts before throwing them at us… (Just a general comment, because I am sick of it!)

Kavi, I shouldn’t have to explain this to you, but since you seem to have trouble understanding what it means to be “prophet,” in terms of the Tanach, let me ask you something:

Are you aware that the Tanach is composed of three sections? The acronym TaNACH stands for Torah, PROPHETS (Neviim), annd Writings (Ketuvim)…

Now Kavi, it just so happens that the Book of Joshua can be found in the PROPHETS part of the TaNACH. It is universally understood that Joshua was the first of the Shoftim/Judges of Israel. This is why the Book of Judges is also found within the PROPHETS section of the TaNACH. The prophet Samuel is known to be the last of these Judges. I’m sure that you will agree with me that Samuel was a prophet. But for some reason, you have a problem with Joshua being a prophet?! Joshua was the one who started the chain from Moses concerning prophesy! That was the whole point of Moses appointing Joshua to be his successor!

Now, within the context of Deuteronomy 18, we can ask ourselves, what does it mean to be a “prophet like Moses.” The answer is simple!

Deut 18:18 [God speaking] ‘I will raise up a prophet from among their countrymen **LIKE YOU,** [Like Moses] **and I will put My words in his mouth, and HE SHALL SPEAK TO THEM ALL THAT I COMMAND HIM.**

So what does it mean to be LIKE Moses in this context? Simple! All at it means is that the prophet will SPEAK THE WORDS THAT GOD COMMANDS HIM. That’s all! Now, what prophet do we know in the Bible who fits this description?

Every prophet in the Bible speaks the word of God…That’s the definition of a prophet!

Joshua was the first of these PROPHETS that succeeded Moses to speak the words that G-d commanded him. This makes Joshua a prophet by definition…

This is why Joshua is compared to Moses so many times in the Book of Joshua. Here is just a few examples of many:

Joshua 1:16. And they answered Joshua saying: All that you have commanded us we shall do and wherever you send us we shall go.

Joshua 1:17. Just as we obeyed Moses in everything, so shall we obey you. Only that the Lord your God be with you as He was with Moses.

The children of Israel knew to obey Joshua as they obeyed Moses because they knew that Hashem commanded Israel to follow the prophet like Moses, who Moses told them to follow. That is precisely what Deuteronomy 18:15-19 conveys to Israel.

Joshua 4:14. On that day the Lord made Joshua great in the sight of all Israel, and they feared him, as they had feared Moses, all the days of his life.

So no, Kavi, Deuteronomy 18:15-19 doesn’t refer to only prophets who aren’t living at the time. The reason that Israel knew to follow Joshua is that Moses told them to follow prophets like him who speak the word of G-d.

Shalom

Yes but Moses hit the pre-incarnated “rock”! That’s something, isn’t it? Also Yeshuahah was on a desert once and fast there for being able to be tempted by Santa! Also, even more impressive is the fact that both names have the same amount of letters! Moses, Jesus! 18(Chai) – 5 – 5 = 8, new birth! This is really the prophet like Moses!

And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face.

None, Kavi, according to the Tanakh, no prophet arose who was like Moses. Not Jesus, not John the Baptist, no any other prophets. You’re stuck, Jesus was not like Moses. Then end.

Or again, why Jesus, why not Mohammed, Joseph Smith or Benny Hinn.

You have a passage that has not specific content to identify that prophet, pick and choose according to what you believe. Simple…

Also, under Joshua’s leadership, Joshua’s connection to G-d stopped the sun in the sky.

Joshua 10:12Then Joshua spoke to the Lord on the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, “Sun, stand still upon Gibeon, and Moon in the valley of Ajalon.”

Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is this not written in the book of Jashar? (which is the Torah)? So the sun stood still in the midst of the heaven, and it did not hasten to go down exactly a whole day.

Joshua 10:14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the Lord hearkened to the voice of a man, for the Lord fought for Israel.

And you want to tell me Joshua isn’t a prophet like Moses?!?!?!

But somehow your dead jeezer on a stick is?!

Look how foolish you look, now Kavi…Time for you to give this one up.

Shalom

“This is clearly incorrect since Moses speaks of a FUTURE prophet rather than one living at the time.”

Please Kavi, let’s just say you are right, please now provide at least one bible verse from the Tanakh explaining how will be the future prophet like Moses. G-d said we must listen to him, then we must be able to identify that exact prophet! No shadows or types, something that clearly identify who that prophet like Moses will be.

P.S. Good luck…

Remi, the irony of this is that I actually already did address his argument and I used essentially the same argument you used, except with Deuteronomy 18:20 concerning THE false prophet!

Deuteronomy 18:20 But **THE (Ha) prophet** who intentionally speaks a word in My name, which I did not command him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.

Using Kavi’s logic, since the definite article “the/ha” is used in front of the word “prophet/naavi,” this verse must be saying that there is only one false prophet…ever!

Of course, Kavi ignored my argument and instead falsely accused me of ignoring his…The guy is so delusional, he doesn’t even realize his goose is cooked!

“Jim, you’ve become quite an adept K-vi impersonator – may be let’s block him and you can post in his place:) ”

Oy vey. Gene, I thought you were my friend! There’s only one K-vi on this planet, and I could never rise to his interminable brilliance.

But thanks anyway..

Jim, the Hebrew in Deuteronomy 18:22 actually does say “the” prophet or “ha” navi. The problem for Kavi is that this would indicate that there will only be ONE false prophet, since Deuteronomy 18:15-19 also speaks of THE prophet in the 3rd person singular…

But ironically, after looking over Deuteronomy 18:15-19, the Hebrew actually doesn’t say “HA” “navi” at all! The definite article “the/ha” is not used concerning this “prophet like Moses in question.” This just lends more credibility to the fact that this “prophet like Moses” is not simply one individual, but rather, a reference to prophets in general.

So Kavi’s original argument concerning “the” prophet was spurious to begin with, as the verses don’t even use the definite article “the/ha” concerning this “prophet like Moses” mentioned in Deuteronomy 18:15-19.

It’s amazing how many ways Kavi can be wrong…

K-vi is arguing from the position of Acts 3:22 and Hebrews 3:2-6.

Of course, the dildo who wrote Hebrews, making mistake after mistake, also followed Paul when he wrote of the generation of the Exodus who were kept from entering the promised land:

“So we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief.”

As with Paul, this boob also rendered “faith” as “believing in” rather than as “trust in and loyalty to”. The sinful generation that created the golden calf at Sinai didn’t disbelieve that Hashem existed — they had already acknowledged that they did! This is clear from Ex. 20:19;

“You speak to us, and we will listen; but do not let God speak to us, lest we die!”

They believed in Hashem, but they also believed in their idols too. It was their loss of trust in and loyalty to Hashem for which they were punished.

But Hebrews and Acts are very clear. It’s about believing that Jesus is G-d. They point to Torah, but they got it completely wrong. Why?

The Septuagint.

———————

None of the NT writers knew Hebrew. They ALL relied on the Septuagint, which had many mistakes, mistranslations and in many verses rephrased the original Hebrew text to present a different concept that the translators wanted to impart to the Hellenized Greek readers.

It was a version for secular Greek Jews who did not know Hebrew anymore, much like most English speaking Jews today who rely on English translations. Or, “The Message” version of the Christian bible today for English readers who don’t know Greek. Some translations are actually interpretations, and some actually change the original meaning.

The Septuagint didn’t just translate from the Hebrew, it interpreted. And did so in ways that Hellenized the Torah, and, later, the rest of the Tanakh. It’s not only Paul who Hellenized Judaism, but others before him had started the process and paved the way.

The rise of Christianity is the best object lesson for sending Jewish kids to Hebrew school.

Kavi if the law couldn’t be kept by Israel AS YOU TEACH why did G-d HIMSELF Explicitly say

Deuteronomy 30 “Now what I am commanding you today (on Sinai) is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.”

I’m starting to think Kavi is a troll…No one can be this stupid…Can they?

I decimated Kavi’s position on his jeezer, yet he sits here saying “Abraham had faith.”

Kavi, are you an idiot? No seriously…Are you? Are you aware the Abraham’s faith had nothing to do with Abraham believing that your jeezer died on a cross for him? Are you really that stupid to make such a comparison?

I haven’t even touched on the fact that Abraham lived BEFORE THE TORAH WAS GIVEN AT SINAI…

But since Kavi is so chronologically confused that he thinks that Abraham’s faith meant that he believed that the jeezer died on a cross for him, I don’t think that Kavi will be able to comprehend the fact that the Torah to Israel after Abraham lived…

Abraham’s faith has nothing to do with faith in the jeezer.

So please, Kavi, stop embarrassing yourself and shut up.

Shalom

“I’m starting to think Kavi is a troll…No one can be this stupid…Can they?”

Yes.. and no.

The reason K-vi seems so stupid is because he’s not here to engage in actual discussions for the purpose of understanding. As I commented over a month ago, he’s here to espouse the NT, and that’s all he’s here to do. This is why he keeps going in circles and restates himself mindlessly. I would like to point out once again that he has not, even once, accepted ANYTHING presented here that is contrary to the NT since he started many weeks ago.

When you have a conversation with a person and they seem like they’re on another planet, you have to ask yourself why there is such a disconnect. Is it that the other person doesn’t understand English? No. Usually it’s because they are not really talking with you, they are talking at you. There’s a whole other conversation going on in their head that you can’t hear.

When K-vi cites scripture and makes his commentary like the one above about Moses and the future prophet, what he’s doing is trying to support what ever the NT says. Whatever you say doesn’t matter. He will continue to repeat the party line no matter what you say, no matter how much evidence you put in front of his nose, no matter what. He already determined that he is not going to break faith, and if it means remaining mindless, then he’s going to remain mindless.

Also notice that he has very successfully kept the entire focus on defending the Tanakh, when we don’t need to defend it.

The whole reason we are in these discussions in the first place is because of that great work of fiction, absurdity and deceit: the “New Testament”. If we’re going to keep this absurdity going (and I don’t really understand why we are) we might enhance our discussions by exposing how stupid the NT really is.

Kavi “First, the text in Genesis 1 does not in any way say “Let the water teem with living a creature(NO S), and let a bird(No S) fly above the earth across the vault of the sky—it is singular.” So God created on bird and one fish…

Ω There has been NO prophet arisen among the people like unto Yeshua—it is He who completely beheld the face and Temunah of the Ancient of Days.
That, you have to believe the NT to be inspired, nobody, the writer of John, could not verify that fact!

There has been NO prophet except Yeshua who was ‘transfigured’
Buddha was transfigured on a mountain top. His form was illumined by as aura of bright light.

CR, very good point.

Yehuda
I’m starting to think Kavi is a troll…No one can be this stupid…Can they?

That’s not very respectful, can we keep the insults out please!

Jim

because he’s not here to engage in actual discussions for the purpose of understanding.

That’s true for all the xtians I know, they are 100% pro-Jesus and no argument could make them change their mind. Because the new testament warns against denying Jesus and the consequence would be hell forever and ever and ever, so all christians do since 2000 years is finding proofs wherever they can. (in a way it’s also true in any debate, nobody wants to see the other side, except if somebody really seek the truth, then he won’t check if what he believes is wrong. … (everybody is right in his own eye))

Also good idea to talk about the non-testament…

For one side, some believe you can loose your salvation, so any doubts will make you like Judas. The other side, the Calvinist, think you were “in” if you persevere, making you doubt if you are part of the elects, those who don’t doubt! It was pretty hard form me to tell my wife, but lifting my hands to Jesus was not possible for me any more! Seriously, I felt so bad when I was dancing Hebrew dances in my messianic congregation with that lyric “You are Messiah, Yeshua Ha-Mashiach, Lion of Judah, the god of Israel” (king of all the earth)
It’s hard to accept you are wrong sometimes..

There is unfortunately a great part of new-testament brainwashing portraying the JEWS as evil and willing to do anything to hide the truth. The Messianic movement is really strong in “we love the Jews” but don’t miss at any opportunity to lash at “Rabbinical” Judaism and anything that could persuade the really MJ to come back to the truth. This includes counter evil anti-missionary and lies like “Isaiah 53 was removed from the bible”, “the Jews changed the scriptures to erase Jesus” and so forth. They also will use any Talmudic text and twist the meaning to prove that the Jews believe in a Supernatural messiah and, of course, the JEWS are hiding those rabbinic text that show Jesus! Oy vey!

But.. but… I thought Christianity was the religion of LOVE!

Jim, it is LOVE all the way, so stop it! You snakes! You brood of vipers! Hypocrite, you blind guide! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Friends,

[**] Yeshua said He came to save the lost sheep of Yisrael– so, neither He nor His followers ever promulgated violence against the Yehudim!

[**] Luke 19:27– Yes, one day we will all face the Judge of Creation and will either inherit eternal blessedness or eternal condemnation. This fact is true whether one believes in the Law for righteousness or Faith in Yeshua for righteousness.

Yeshua reiterated a truth that everyone knew– however, what people did not know is that He, Yeshua, will be the eternal Judge.

_____

So, one may either believe in a single, monotheistic G-d who will condemn the unrighteous for all eternity [Daniel 12:2]

One may believe in an “Echad” Elohim who will condemn the unrighteous for all eternity.

Take your pick– A Sovereign Judge will eternally reward or eternally punish mankind.

____________________________

BTW> Although John 3:16 is a very well-known scripture, most people cannot tell you what the next verse says:

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes into Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.”

So, Yeshua came from heaven to earth to make atonement for the sins of mankind– HOWEVER, now that He has returned to His place next to the Ancient of Days, it is time for His enemies to await their judgment.

20 For everyone practising evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

AKA all the Jews that practice evil hate Jesus, because he has not believed in the name of (JESUS) the only begotten Son of God. Because Jesus (the light) has come into the world, and men (the jews) loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Because they are from their father the devil! So his precious and innocent blood should be on the Jews and their children forever.

Don’t wonder why so many CHRISTIAN, you may not admit it but they were, persecuted the JEWS

Remi,– “everyone” means all mankind, not just the Yehudim!

______________________

Gene, Elohim is “Echad” and has revealed Himself as:
Ω The Ancient of Days [Daniel 7]
Ω The Son of Man– Yeshua, the Temunah of the Ancient of Days that mankind can actually see without being fried. [Exodus 24; Daniel 7]
Ω The Ruach HaKodesh [Genesis 1]

So– just as man and woman somehow mysteriously become ‘echad’ in marriage, so G-d describes himself as the eternal, “Echad” Elohim.

____________________

god the father “I am going to throw all those !(@#U!($ in HELL!”

jesus “remember you are sooooooo loving daddy!”

father “fine, fine, I’ll kill you instead!”

Remi,
Why is there an Eternal Judge?

Isn’t the Sovereign Elohim going to judge ALL mankind’s wickedness irrespective of whether they are a Jew or Gentile?

Why make Yeshua into the ‘bad guy’ Judge since Daniel 12:2 speaks of eternal punishment of the wicked?

I don’t say these things out of unkindness– Daniel is the one who spoke the words of eternal judgment.

BTW> Isaiah also speaks of eternal judgment.

______________________________

Friends,

Why do we honor those who have given their lives in combat to save the lives of their comrades– that is, men/women who sacrificed themselves and disregarded whether their fellow comrades were ‘good’ or ‘evil’?

Why is special honor given to Anyone who voluntarily gives up their life for the sake of another?

Remember 9/11 and the World Trade Center?

Did anyone stand up in the middle of the congregation and say– “these men and women died ‘unrighteously’ on 9/11 because they voluntarily gave up their lives to save the lives of others whom they did not know?”

How is it unrighteousness to lay down your life for another– even those who hate you?

_______________________________

Remi, . . Friend. . .You bring up a horribly delicate subject and I will not remotely pretend to be the Eternal Judge.

But tell us:
How many ‘innocent’ children and babes died during the 10th plague?

Were there not other times when Holy Scripture speaks of children and babes that were put to death? Are these not very difficult passages for mankind to justify?

Is mankind so ‘just’ in their own eyes that he/she can judge the Eternal Judge?

Why did G-d allow Klara Hitler’s baby, Adolph, to survive to adulthood?

After you die, will you stand up before the Judge and say that He got it wrong?

You are not like those who said, “The ways of the L-rd are not just.”? [Ezekiel 33]

And on that lovely note, Shabbat Shalom. May the Truth ultimately prevail.

Respectfully or not, you’re not really interested in understanding. You’re only here to uphold what you’ve been led to believe, and to debate your views which we all here understand. We know what you’re trying to say. We’ve heard it and read it numerous times before. There is no lack of understanding — there is vehement disagreement, based on scripture.

Christian theology shamelessly and horrendously distorts and malign’s the true nature of Hashem. It is an abomination, and no less. You think you know God oh so well. But that is a hallucination. You are blinded to the truth by your Christian view of our scriptures, and you cannot see nor understand your own blindness and how your perceptions are distorted. I used the analogy of the Matrix with you in the past, and that is exactly what it’s like. You don’t even know that you don’t know. Believers are living in the dream world. The truth is, it’s not Jews who are spiritually blind, it’s Christian believers who have been spiritually and unforgivably deceived.

Gene,

Since Kavi began to comment here in April, the blog became more and more dominated by fruitless discussions with him. It has become “Kavi’s Blog”.

I used to see contributors like Sara, CR, Keith, Jeramiahgiehl, Prosistency and others post comments in the past, but they have dropped out of the discussions. I find that trend more than coincidental. Discussions with Kavi are circular, endless and, after the first few, have become pointless. Now with Yehuda dropping away, out of understandable frustration, we are down to just three of us. I think the blog has become a bore to onlookers, many of whom may not even follow it with any interest at this point.

This is just my personal opinion, and it’s your blog. That being said, it’s my opinion that Kavi be limited to at most one post per week, or blocked entirely.

In fact Gene, in giving this a bit more thought, I rather suspect that even one post per week from Kavi will be too much. I’m concerned it could have a dampening effect on participation from those who became understandably sick and tired of the dialog with him.

While I don’t like censorship, it cannot be denied that we gave him every opportunity and unlimited press to express his views ad nauseum, much to the detriment of the blog, and have addressed dozens and dozens of his statements and arguments. There is virtually nothing more he can offer that would be significant or new, or that would contribute to an intelligent discussion. I feel that this blog needs to regain the intelligence it once had, and any further discussions with him will negatively affect that recovery.

It it were my blog, I’d thank him, send him prayers, wish him well, encourage him to follow the discussions, and block him.