Jesus, a short poem
August 15, 2016
By Gene Shlomovich
To you the nations send their kisses,
But few did contemplate your end.
Exalting mortals to the heavens,
Against Eternal they rebelled.
They croon, “how lovely is our savior!”,
Like us became he, just to die.
Is he not worthy of our worship,
Won’t he be coming from the sky?
But they are in for disappointment,
For you are human, made of clay.
All demigods who came before you,
Like those men, your bed is grave.
But I refuse to bow to heroes,
By miracles I’m not impressed.
Eternal bliss does not entice me,
I’d rather die than you confess.
I am a Jew. I know my Savior,
The G-d of Israel His Name.
My L-rd, Life-Giver and Life-Taker,
Who trusts in You will see no shame.
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Daily Minyan 
That gets a gold star, Gene.
Thanks, Jim!
I like it!
How the Catholic Church Behaved During the Holocaust:
http://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2016/09/jews-in-year-1933-ce-by-mr-cohen.html
Gene, your never going to have a Meshiach because your arguements against Yeshua could be applied to any Meshiach. Your in denial of the Word of God that describes the One of 2000 years that a large portion of Judaism was waiting for at that time. I’ve read your anti-messianic barbs on a variety of sites, and I’ve seen others respond to your challenges with scripture from Tanaka, and you keep on rambling with the same old drone, and you have no viable defense for your argument.
Yeshua was the Suffering Servant of Isaiah, He fulfilled the time prophesies of Daniel, and He was the “One we pierced” in Zechariah. He was born in the right place from the right line. We don’t need a New Testament to figure this out! Yes, the Western Churches have done all kinds of damage, but Modern (Messiah Rejecting) Judaism is doing the same! Your being RIPPED OFF!!!
Michael, Michael, Michael…
You’re not choosing the good portion, my friend. Instead of busying yourself with all your propaganda and mistranslated verses from your erroneous bibles, you should sit yourself at Gene’s feet. (Apologies to Gene.)
First of all, since you don’t need the NT to figure this stuff out (very true), understand that the Tanach defines who and what Maschiach is, and that he will be a king, but just a man — 100% human.
Secondly, the suffering servant throughout the entire book of Isaiah is consistently the nation of Israel.
Thirdly, Jeses did not at all fulfill the time prophesies of Daniel, which goes to show your lack of understanding of both the verses and of historical events.
Finally, the “One we pierced” is a bogus mistranslation found in your inaccurate bible.
Guess what? YOU have been ripped off!
My Hebrew is not great, but my JPS Tanakh says pretty much the same thing as the Christian versions. Zechriah’s “and they will look at Me whom they pierced” is past tense and future tense–two advents.
As far as Israel being its own suffering servant is simply wishful thinking. The Reality is Modern Judaism is Messiah Rejecting Judaism and not the same as existed 2000 years ago. The hypocracy is monumental because over the years numerous Rabbis, beginning with Rabbi Akiva have declared messiahs that history proved false, and yet these sages are still venerated within Judaism. To this day we have Rabbi Schneerson of Blessed Memory being hailed as Meshiach by the Lubavitch.
Just like the rejection of Yeshua of Nazereth it is wishful thinking Jim!
My suggestion for those that want to sit at Mr. Slomovich’s feet is to constructivly learn Torah and dialogue and teach the Christians the Law they are lacking instead of ridiculing Yeshua of Nazereth!
There Church did begin in a Knesset.
Shalom.
Archangel Michael,
Yeshuah was not the messiah. Simple as that. Even your “Pierced” translation, which is still debatable, despite JPS, proves absolutely nothing. Many saints and self declared messiah were killed.Try reading all of Isaiah. There are, if I recall, seven references to the “servant” — including, “Israel is my servant”. You come back here, list each ocuurance, who the author meant and why. Do your homework.
Previous claims of a messiah were all false, including your idol Yeshu, because the messiah comes at the same time as the end of days. Hasn’t happened yet. And the sad theory of the second coming not only flies directly in the face of what Jesus himself supposedly said when he declared to his apostles that he would return before they died, but has no more validity than another hollow claim: my grandmother Etta will return and bring peace to earth.
Finally, attend any service at Chabad, and at the end of the rabbi’s message, he will conclude with an appeal for “the coming of Moschiach NOW!”. Obviously, they don’t believe Schneerson was he. Go. Hear it for yourself.
Do your homework. Wake up. Lose your arrogance. And anyway, why would you think Christians, who have been told are saved without the Law, need to hear it from Jews who have rejected their god?
The Christians have confused Meshiach with the Father. The verse from the JPS in Zechariah is clearer in Hebrew that they will look on “Adoni, and him who they pierced.” The idea that there is a second advent does exist within Judaism, and our Hasidic brothers waiting for Rabbi Schneerson is my case in point.
I’ve researched records of Jewish communities in the Czech lands where the deep rift did not always exist between Christian and Jew. During the time of the Hussites many Jews converted to accept Messiah, and some Hussite sects (Torah Observant) converted to Judaism such as the ancestors of Fraz Kafka. In the town of my ancestor Jews would sometimes stand in the back of Church on Sunday after observing Shabot. They got along with their Christian nieghbors. The Chabad was formed partly in response to this softening of the lines that existed in the more rural communities. There are the Passigians, Subotniks, Bohemian Brothers, and others that attracked numbers of Jews, but everytime this happened, the Roman Church came down with an Iron Fist. Orthodox Judaism responded as well, but without the ability to act with the same force. Many of your arguements to Christian claims were developed at this time.
As far as who I pray to, it is the God of our Father Avraham, but I don’t disregard Meshiach Yeshua son of Joseph House of David. To do so would be to disregard the Word of God through our prophets, and heresy.
Please Consider, Shalom
Michael,
Oh, so now we’re onto Kafka and the Orthodox Church? You do what all Christian apologists do when confronted by inconvenient facts: you change the subject.
Try dealing with Isaiah and Daniel, your first so-called “proofs”, before going down myriad, circuitous paths. I’m not going there with you.
Okay Jim, I’ll get back with you on the servant Israel verses, and Daniel, One like a son of man who is given Kavod of HaShem, sounds like Yeshua to me!
Lilah Tov.
Good.
And while you’re at it, perhaps you can also explain the “pierced” verse you quoted from JPS? You said, “My Hebrew is not great, but my JPS Tanakh says pretty much the same thing as the Christian versions. Zechriah’s “and they will look at Me whom they pierced”
“Pretty much the same thing?” Nah, I think not.
Zechariah 12:10
JPS 1917 ed: “and they shall look unto Me because they have thrust him through;…”
Clearly, there’s a distinction between “Me” and “him”.
JPS 1985 ed: “and they shall lament to Me about those who are slain”
Clearly, a distinction between “Me” and “those”.
JPS 1992 ed: “and they shall lament to Me about those who are slain”
Clearly, a distinction between “Me” and “those”.
So what’s the confusion here? There are three parties: (a) those doing the lamenting, (b) God, and (c) him or those who were impaled/slain. They are distinct from each other. “Pretty much the same thing”? Not. It wasn’t God who was pierced.
So if not God, then who was pierced through and slain? More on that next. And the answer will definitely surprise you. But that’s because you came to the chapter having already been told it was Jesus, instead of reading it for what it is.
“As far as who I pray to, it is the God of our Father Avraham, but I don’t disregard Meshiach Yeshua son of Joseph House of David. To do so would be to disregard the Word of God through our prophets, and heresy.”
Michael W Cuber – it’s an explicit Torah “mitzvah” (Deuteronomy 18:22) to test and then disregard a false prophet. Jesus has proven himself to be a false prophet through his own words – if anything we have in the NT are actually his words – and also through what was said about him. Various prominent Christians even acknowledged that much. And it’s an especial mitzvah to disregard and shun everything pertaining to a false prophet who was turned into a false deity, an idol.
“The hypocracy is monumental because over the years numerous Rabbis, beginning with Rabbi Akiva have declared messiahs that history proved false, and yet these sages are still venerated within Judaism.”
There’s no hypocrisy, Michael W Cuber. You misunderstand or ignore that primary point of Jewish opposition to Jesus. It’s no sin in Judaism to declare someone a messiah, especially a potential one. Besides Jesus, we had plenty of other false messiahs, before him and since him. To declare someone “anointed” or a Davidic king in the absence of prophets is monumental foolishness. When the obvious signs are lacking and the world remains fundamentally unchanged or worse, becomes even more violent than ever as a result (WWI and WWII), especially towards Jews (and Christianity has played the key role in fostering the Jew-hatred that Nazis later adopted for themselves), one knows that the messiah is a false one. But there’s no law in the Torah against declaring someone a “messiah” (or hoping that someone might be one). However, propping up some bloke as a deity to be worshiped – now THAT where the boundary got irreversibly crossed.
Jim, I found three references to Israel as a Servant, Isaiah 49:3, Isaiah 41:8, Isaiah 44:21, but I also found three verses where Israel is collectively referred to as unfaithful, or an adulterous woman, in Hosea 2:2-23, Jeremiah 3, and Ezekiel 16. Isaiah 9 clearly states “for a child will be born for us, and the government will rest on his shoulders. He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Piece. So yes, there are references calling Israel a Son, and My Servant, but there are also clearly Messianic Texts as well, like our Isaiah 9 text. If we go over to Daniel 9, we read “the Meshiach will be cut off and will have nothing.” In Isaiah 53 it says “He was pierced…,” Daniel says He will be cast down, and Zechariah says, He is pierced again. If you will study the chronology of events in Daniel this Prince, our Host is cast down, the sacrifice is stopped, and the Temple destroyed. This is the exact chain of events that occured after 30 A.D., plus, or minus, a few years, depending on who’s calendar we go by.
In Zechariah 3, we have Yeshua the High Priest and his associates called,” a sign of My Servant the Branch…,” and “I will take away the guilt of this land in a single day.” Notice the name of the High Priest, it is Yeshua (not Jesus), so whether Yeshua of Nazareth was Meshiach, or not, the name of Yeshua (Gods Salvation) should be respected.
As far as the time prophesies of Daniel, we are told that the 2300 days are referring to a distant time, and epoch to come, after the host and the Mishkan is destroyed, but Daniel is somewhat consouled in the next chapter, when a 69 week prophesy is given for the coming of the Anointed \ Meshiach, and the days for years interpretation in these chapters works out really close. I know Rabbinic Judaism will say 517 B.C. was the return, and Christendom will say 494 B.C.,but scholars and archeologist all agree that the return is an educated guess at best!
Regardless, Daniel 9 says “He will be cut off,” Zechariah says the High Priest Yeshua is a sign of the Branch to come, and later says He will be pierced, so I’ve got to look at Isaiah in context with the rest of our Prophesies. Isaiah also states that “He will bear,” “He will be pierced,” and “He will be punished for US” repeatedly. In the other Servant Israel verses it is clear that Israel is being referred to as a collective, but Isaiah is Him for Us clearly, and repeatedly; furthermore, verse 14 “Just as many were appalled at You / Him in Syrian and other manuscripts, it is Him for Us Seven times, and We for Him three times. He makes atonement for us; as an adulteress, our atonement for ourselves is worthless, and the Servant in Isaiah is clearly making atonement for Us the Unfaithful!
In regards to Gene’s comment, I agree that there is nothing that prevents one from declaring someone a Messiah, and I’ve given the Prophetic texts that Yeshua fulfilled, even being pierced as in Isaiah, and Zechariah, and Cast down as in Daniel. I will agree that much is been done, in the name of another (the zues) that is too deplorable to even mention, and most of the Churches (Romanized Churches) behavior has been anything other than what Yeshua of Nazareth taught his Desciples, but I’m not going to stop engaging Christians and Jews to rethink their Traditions!
Hope you enjoy Israel Gene, I just returned from Jerusalem myself.
Shalom
Michael, are you willing to accept the truths of the various “proofs” you believe in, if they turn out not to be what you think? Even if it means changing who you think God is? Just as you expect and demand “unbelieving” Jews to do regarding Jesus? Be really honest, because your sincerity in answering this question will be tested and exposed here for all to see.
Jim, if I’m wrong I will certainly accept that when I stand accountable to Him. I think you are somewhat confused as to “who I think God is?” I’m not confusing His Meshiach with Our Father as it seems you are inferring above, and I’m not demanding that you accept Jesus, if you will return to my initial posts, but I do think you and Gene should be more respectful of Yeshua and Messianics, and I’ll throw in confused Christians as well, if they’re not going on crusade against anyone. I’ve seen Mr Shlomovich, and others like Remi 4321 showing up on Messianic sites and giving no response when their challenges have been met with Scripture, and really good Scriptures at that, and these are not Christian sites, they’re Messianic and mostly Jews on them! Hence, here I am on his site.
You can believe what you want, and there is much of it that we have in common, and I’m not going to make fun of you for doing so, but I ask the same in return.
Fair enough, Michael. Yes, I did assume that you equated Jesus with God. Apologies for not catching that. What about Son of God? And do messianics not equate Jesus with God?
“if I’m wrong I will certainly accept that when I stand accountable to Him.”
Michael, and what if you are wrong NOW? Are you willing to even entertain that as a possibility or do you simply reject all evidence contrary and simply choose to let the chips fall where they may once you’re dead?
You see, Michael, I WAS willing to “entertain” at the time when I was still very much a believer. I was willing to do that in my quest for truth, and that’s how I eventually came to reject Christian dogmas as false and idolatrous and their “sacred” texts as lies – by shining the light of Torah on them.
BTW, this is not me making “fun” of you. This is not fun at all, this is serious, life-changing stuff, dead-serious.
Not all Jim. The verse in Zechariah states the House of David will be Co’Elohim / As God, and the Trinity doctrine of the RC Church only confounded the matter for 1700 years. Yeshua said He did nothing of His own initiative, but His Father’s. I can’t get my head around the relationship,but I will say that it is only the will of Adoni that is expressed in the end. Regardless of Who the Meshiach should turn out to be, I think we are going to have the same struggle comprehending the relationship. When Moshe came down off the mountain He was Glowing, was that Glow His, or was it HaShem’s?
Jim, you’ve been fair enough in our dialogue which could probably go on forever. We’d have a new energy source if we could harness it somehow, but it’s not my place to convince you of anything. I apologize if I came off as though I’m trying to beat something into someone. If we cannot be respectful of one another, Hope is lost.
Blessings from Above!
Mike
Gene, I came from a very secular Jewish family, and wasn’t sure who Messiah was, but I could see from the order around me, and incidents in my life that Someone’s Hand had been upon me. At 44 years of age I was an alcoholic and opiate drug addict that had never done anything for anyone else in my Life! The night I broke down and prayed to the God of our Father’s, I felt a warmth and a Love in my heart that I’d never had before, and I realized two very important revelations; God had never had anything but good intentions for me, and that He’d sent His Son to die for me!
I’d struggled with a damaged back from a combat related injury I received in the Marine Corps in Somalia. When I got up the next morning of the 23 of Dec 2011, I was a new man, and I quit the alcohol and opiates cold turkey. This just doesn’t happen on its own. You can call it xaition, but it happened! I recertified in EMS and got my firefighter basic cert at 44 years old; I was 20 years older than the next oldest canidate. The Ruach HaKodesh told me what I need to do, and where to go, and I did it. I ended up a remote medic for oilfield support vessels and I went to the ends of this earth. I’ve been to the arctic twice in remote camps and had nothing but time to study Torah and online Hebrew lessons. I’ve met other Jews along the way that have had very similiar experiences. I’ve never heard a testimony like this from an Orthodox Jew, and I get strange looks when I tell this to most Christians, but this is my experience, and really not based on what I wanted to believe. Everywhere I have gone, I’ve felt an obligation to share this with the young men on the ships and camps that struggle with the same addictions I’d struggled with. My mantra is “Seek you first the Kingdom of God and all things will be added unto you.”
I was a dead man that night of Dec 23, and its not my life but His that I live today.
You asked, Gene!
Michael, you have an impressive personal testimony of getting back on your feet. I have heard many amazing testimonies from baal teshuvahs (secular Jews who became Jewishly observant), including those who have recovered from years of drug abuse and worse issues. However, personal testimonies do not determine truth for me – many down on their luck converts to most religions likewise claims to have undergone amazing transformations. If you have not heard their stories (I have) , it’s because you didn’t seek them out or ignored them. What do their personal turnarounds prove? That their religious beliefs are the correct ones? Of course not! It proves only one thing, and that is that G-d sends his rain on both the wicked and the good.
You questioned my belief, and I have shared both my study and my experience. I have not heard these testimonies from Orthodox Jews, and that is not because I’ve not enquired. I’ve shared it with many Christians and I get the same blank stare; this has been my experience. Yes, He does cause the rain to fall on the righteous and unrighteous.
My point is, Michael, is that one personal “testimony” cannot be used to confirm the correctness of one’s chosen dogmas. That’s what Evangelicalism has wrought, unfortunately, and they are fond of using “testimonies” both for evangelistic purposes and for self-affirmation of their religion. Practitioners of other religions have their own testimonies too (
Ex-Suicidal Drug Addict Turns to Islam), as I noted, and some even report accompanying “miracles”.
“I have not heard these testimonies from Orthodox Jews, and that is not because I’ve not enquired.”
You should have inquired from some of the baal teshuvhas (former drug addicts, criminals, etc.) and not just FFB (frum from birth) Jews who lived Torah-observant (“clean”) lives from the time they were little children.
” Yes, He does cause the rain to fall on the righteous and unrighteous.”
G-d does. And I am glad he helped you recover from your problems and I am glad he helps me as well. But Jesus doesn’t. Jesus didn’t help you and he didn’t help me, because well, like any other human being long dead, right now he does nothing.
Is that site alive again? I would suggest, if we want to arrive at any common ground to forget about the 365 prophecies and deal with one at a time. If we look at 365 prophecies, our friend Michael will always be able to say “Yes, that does not fit Jesus, but what about the 364 other prophecies?” And so forth, even if we explain him all the wrong indoctrination that he has received for many years, he won’t change his mind. If Michael could just mentioned the top 10 prophecies that are clearly and undeniably about Jesus, then maybe we can easily show him that they Cannot be about him… One prophecy at a time… Which prophecy would Michael would like to have disproven first?