Cheating on G-d with Jesus
The other day I have went out to lunch with an old Christian friend of mine. He already knew about my return to Judaism and wanted to talk about my life and especially what led me out of Christianity (a.k.a. “Messianic Judaism”). He told me that he’s not going to attempt to talk me out of it. As I was relaying to him all of the reasons and happenings, he listened very intently, shocked not so much at my choice, but rather from all the things he was hearing, as if for the very first time. As I quoted the Hebrew Bible to him and compared it with the New Testament, he acquired a worried look on his face. As I brought up the biblical verses, one after another, where G-d over and over said to Israelites that He was not a man, that He can’t ever die, that we are not to place our trust in other human beings for our salvation, that we are to love Him above all else, that there’s no one next to G-d, he was actually shocked about the possibility that worshiping Jesus is in fact idolatry. He had so many questions.
I met him again, a few weeks later. He told me that he cannot stop thinking about what I said and that my words have turned his world upside down. I remember telling him one analogy to help him grasp the enormity of the sin of idolatry that Christians commit by focusing their affections on Jesus, a mortal human being, above all else, betraying their Maker:
You are a married man. Imagine coming home one day and finding your wife, the one you love so dearly, passionately embracing and kissing another man, a stranger neither you or your wife ever met before. Angry, shocked and dismayed, you approach your wife (still in the arms of that other man) and ask for an explanation of what clearly looks like a betrayal of marriage vows and trust. “What is this?!”, you shout.
She slowly turns her head to you (still locked in the tight embrace) and tells you matter-of-factly and with a smile: “Honey, don’t worry about it! This is not what it appears. You see, this man is a good man that I can trust. He is a trustworthy man who would never do anything wrong. This is not adultery! In fact, this man told me that you were the one who sent him to me – he represents you! Don’t you remember? He told me that when I speak to him affectionately, when I hug and kiss him, when I am intimate with him, when I love him more than anyone else, that it was as if I was hugging, kissing, and making love to you! Relax, my dear, you have absolutely nothing to be jealous of”. She again turns her head away from you and toward the stranger, placing her lips on his.
Still in shock and pain, the words come out of your mouth: “But… you… are… married …. to… me. What about our vows to each other? He’s…not…me and I am standing right in front of you! How can you do this to me?!”
But your wife is so smitten by passion for the stranger, she can no longer hear anything you say.
Daily Minyan 
Reblogged this on Menashe's Blog and commented:
Light the blue touch paper!!
Jesus is the TORAH made flesh…. The TORAH is not God in totality but a revealed portion of He God and from a technical sense That is God sense the TORAH is God speaking through a prophet….
Jesus never broke any commandments of the TORAH … I’d love to see a blog post addressing the above or any evidence from the Greek text of the NT showing Jesus as something else…..
It should be noted that Christianity isn’t the NT or OT and the practice of the people in both the OT and NT would be close to Judaism but neither documents claim or shall I say officiate such a religious title upon themselves.
Bruce, for those of us who reject NT as idolatrous nonsense and place zero authority on its claims, calling Jesus “Torah” or “prophet” or “sinless” means equally nothing.
Yet no evidence provided Mr.Shlomovich:
“for those who reject NT as idolatrous nonsense and place zero authority on its claims”. – This statement appears to have many contradictions in them. Some I would ask are;
If you find no value in the NT why discuss it? Why waste energy discussing a document that in your eyes has no value?
Why would anyone care about your analysis (or lack thereof) about the NT when all you do is bring up 2nd handed and compromised to some degree evidence (English bible/ English NT)?
Many of the claims you’ve made against the NT don’t show any outside historical or greek documental evidence.
Its sad that our society makes claims without lack of evidence (i.e.:News Media, Certain aspect of Science, etc..)
……..The Greek document known as the NT shows evidence that the One called Jesus was a abider by the Torah and the One True God. The evidence is stated in its documents.
You failed to bring evidence into your argument….. and to loosely through “christianity” out there is poor form because you lump the whole as one…. thats like me saying all rabbis and catholic priest are pedophiles and there religion is a divisive means to prey on innocent children. Just because a few rabbis and priest were charge with child sex crimes, would my analysis be accurate? …. No.
It would be slanderous to blog and say ALL rabbis and priest and their religion are pedophiles without supporting evidence. I would fail in my prosecution before a court of law if I had to present this to the judge.
Your blog here lacks evidence and the scapegoat answer of “I don’t recognize the NT as authentic, shows a lack of case by cases analysis.
The Hebrew OT and Greek NT make no claims to designate the “official” religion titles we are familiar with in the modern era. But if one were to analyze both documents, you would come to a conclusion that Judaism is the closest of all the religions that mirror OT & NT principles and adherences.
But you’re not to confuse yourself and say that what was practiced back then was legitimately called “Judaism” because both documents do not make such a statement.
” If you find no value in the NT why discuss it? Why waste energy discussing a document that in your eyes has no value?”
I discuss NT for the very same reason the Jewish scriptures discuss idolatry – as a warning to those who may find themselves seduced.
No response to the rest of my post?
In addition to my question above …. Why focus on one religious system (christianity)? Why not focus on Islam & Buddhism & Sikh? Seems bias to say one religious system contains idolatry when idolatry boiled down to a group of people or an individual or nation in biblical times not a religion. Israel and all the nations that ever existed have been accused and found guilty of idolatry. Israel is to be the standard and example of what a nation accused of idolatry should do to correct course.
Bruce, I have ready addressed many of your questions in posts on this blog.
As to why I focus on Christianity, here are my reasons:
1. No other world religion actively targets Jews for conversion, spending millions of dollars on these efforts through hundreds of dedicated missionary organizations and professional missionaries.
2. Jews who are ensnared by Christianity/Messianic “Judaism” are, with a few exceptions of those who were furtunate to escape, are permanently lost to their people. Idolatry has its price.
3. Millions of Jews died as a direct and indirect result of Christian antisemitism fueled for centuries by the New Testament.
4. Starting in my late teens, I myself embraced Evangelical Christianity, then later took active part in its Messianic wing. I witnessed the destructive, assimilationist and alienating effects that religion had on ALL Christian/Messianic Jews that I encountered. I directly experienced idolatrous focus on a dead man (Jesus) vs G-d, the appalling ignorance of Torah and the Jewish way of life even among the so called “messianic rabbis”, the anti-Judaism of even those who were supposedly “pro-Judaism”.
Bruce,
Your NT is riddled with lies and takes the Tanach out of context in order to erroneously champion jesus as the Messiah and even god! From page 1 of your NT, Matthew makes the brazen statement at the beginning of his false NT that jesus is literally the Messiah of the Jewish people. He then goes on to try and prove his Davidic pedigree in order to prove that he is at least a candidate for this, but there’s a caveat…Your jesus was said to have been “born of a virgin.” Besides the fact that this would disqualify jesus from being a candidate for the Messiah since tribal heritage only goes BIOLOGICALLY through the FATHER, matthew abuses scripture to say that jesus was “fulfilling” Isaiah 7:14 by being supposedly “born of a virgin.”
Bruce, I will now demonstrate to you how the “virgin birth” that matthew speaks of is a lie…Isaiah never made such a prophesy!
The birth of Isaiah’s child was clearly the fulfillment of the sign prophesied in Isaiah 7:14-16. How do I know this? Isaiah tells us himself! Lets look at these verses
Isaiah 7:14. Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel.
Isaiah 7:15. Cream and honey he shall eat when he knows to reject bad and choose good.
Isaiah 7:16. For, when the lad does not yet know to reject bad and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread, shall be abandoned.”
Keep verse 16 in mind. It is crucial to the context of Isaiah. Now, lets look at the next chapter of Isaiah and see what he has to say:
Isaiah 8:3. And I was intimate with the prophetess, and she conceived, and she bore a son, and the Lord said to me, “Call his name Maher-shalal-hash-baz.
Isaiah 8:4. For, when the lad does not yet know to call, ‘Father’ and ‘mother,’ the wealth of Damascus and the plunder of Samaria shall be carried off before the king of Assyria.”
Well what do you know! Isaiah said a young woman would give birth to a child and in the very next chapter his wife has a son! Prophesy fulfilled! The interesting thing about it is that Isaiah explicitly says he was intimate with her. This means that this “alma” described in Isaiah 7:14 is Isaiah’s wife. Morever, she is not a virgin! Thus, the word “alma” does not exclusively refer to women who are virgins! Isaiah says it himself!
And if you are still not convinced, here’s a direct statement from Isaiah saying his sons are signs:
Isaiah 8:18. Behold, I and the children whom the Lord gave me for signs and for tokens in Israel, from the Lord of Hosts, Who dwells on Mount Zion.
The natural birth of Isaiah’s son was the fulfillment of the sign of Isaiah 7:14, namely that his wife would give birth to a son, and that before he knew the difference between good and evil/father and mother, “the wealth of Damascus and the plunder of Samaria shall be carried off before the king of Assyria.”And if you are going to whine that Isaiah’s son was not called “Immanuel directly,” I will kindly point out to you that your jesus was never called “Immanuel” by his mother either, so you would be setting a double standard, as Isaiah states that the mother of this child will call him “Immanuel.”
If you are going to argue that this is a “dual fulfillment” regarding Matthew’s application of this to the supposed virgin birth of jesus, you will have to concede that the word “alma” does not exclusively refer to a virgin, as I have demonstrated above. This shows lack of exclusivity to the nature of the word “alma” and demystifies the christian obsession with the birth needing to be “miraculous” in order to see fulfillment.
In other words, Isaiah 7:14 has just as much to do with the birth of jesus as it does the birth of Karl Marx, or Jerry Seinfeld, assuming a “multiplicity of fulfillments” theory…
Or perhaps my birth! I was born of a woman! Maybe Isaiah 7:14 is about me!
See how ridiculous it is to attribute this prophesy to jesus?
And Bruce, would you like to explain to me why your NT writer matthew ripped the second half of Hosea 11:1 out of context and applied it to jesus? Matthew chapter 2 describes jesus’s adoptive father joseph going down to Egypt to hide jesus from king herod.
Matthew 2:15 He stayed there until Herod died. In this way what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet was fulfilled: *“From Egypt I called my son.”*
Matthew is quoting from Hosea 11:1, but he ripped the verse out of context! Here is the full context of the verse:
Hosea 11:1. For, when ISRAEL was young, I loved him, and from Egypt I called My son.
So we can see here that this verse is not about simple the Messiah, BUT ISRAEL! See how matthew abuses the context of scripture Bruce? But there’s more!
Hosea 11:2. The more they called to them, the more they went away from them; to the baalim they would slaughter sacrifices, and to the graven images they would burn incense.
See the context, Bruce? I wanted to provide you the full context. Your matthew abused scripture and falsely attributed this prophesy to jesus. If you want to claim that this verse applies to jesus, then you have to deal with the fact that the second verse refers to a SINFUL ISRAEL. Do you still want to apply this verse to jesus Bruce?
It isn’t a very strong convincer when someone uses passages that are not exclusive to the Messiah in order to try and prove that someone is the messiah…That is the case with Hosea 11:1. The prophesy in its immediate context does not concern the Messiah exclusively, and thus, is a poor choice of a verse to use in attempting to lend credibility to someone being the Messiah.
This concept isn’t that complicated. Your NT authors give poor evidence to support jesus as being the Messiah. Clearly, they abused the Tanach and ripped it out of context. What deceivers!
If you’re intellectually honest, you will deal with these blunders head on. Your NT authors abuse scripture to an absurd degree and its time you acknowledged this. We have no reason to assume that jesus was “sinless” or that he fulfilled the Messianic prophesies of the Tanach.
Shalom
Hi, I am surprise to see a “Messianic” who would listen to you. They usually are not doing that, but just want to throw their arguments. So usually it is useless to talk at all with them. That’s good he wanted to listen. I think people are willing to listen only when they see something wrong with their belief. Then they can look with a true heart on what is true and what is a lie. Otherwise, you are talking with someone that will go to hell, re-crucify jesus and a Judah, if it would happen only one second that he could have the thought that Jesus is not G-d (or god). Then the argument is useless. For me, I started to doubt about Jesus when I studied more about the trinity, then I saw a lot of pagan that it came from Valentinus, a gnostic… Then I saw more of the pagan origin of Christianity. Then I looked into the messianic “Proofs”. I could not have done it without first having an open eye to seek for the Truth. And you will seek Me, and find Me when you seek Me with a true heart…
“So usually it is useless to talk at all with them. That’s good he wanted to listen.”
Remi… some are more intellectually honest with themselves than others. Some are braver than others. Most, however, would rather live with the so called “simple faith” that doesn’t question and doesn’t rock the boat. Digging deeper and asking “what if?” is seen as intellectualism, and when contrasted with “simple faith” it is viewed with much disdain, especially among Messianics/Evangelicals. As you noted, there’s great fear among many Christians / Messianics that prevents them from attempting to learn something that would contradict the accepted Christian dogma coming from the pulpit – fear of being “deceived by the Devil” and fear of ending up in hell for all eternity for non-belief in JC.
The gift of accepting Jesus and the punishment of not makes it hard to see honestly what the Bible Say. Add the fact that you should have faith without seeing. You can go as far, according to the new testament, as to test the preacher, testing Jesus would render you as an anti-christ. Fortunately, I never seen the rest that Jesus promised. It is hard to always find argument for jesus, when it is simply not there…
Remi…. Thanks for the kind word.
Bruce/BG
***and I just want to add that Despite some differences as I see it, I find value in examining the arguments and “proofs” gene presents on his blog.
Judaism teaches we are to not slander anyone, whether Jew, or gentile.
Judaism teaches to ask why? and gene’s blog allows me to ask why to many things I know and don’t yet know about the NT.
Hi Bruce, “proofs” are always in brackets… Never enough to convince anybody that he is wrong. One of those things that the pride of man will not allow him to see thing for the way they are. (And I talk for both sides). That is good that you see things in both sides to see what makes more sense. G-d will reward it to anyone who is honest, and hopefully I am too. We can only hope that we are not bias. I do honestly think that Jesus is not the messiah. You, my wife and my friends think he is. One day we will all see clearly. If he is and I don’t change my mind, I will finish in Hell. If he is not, than you are wrong, and I do hope that G-d will forgive those who were ignorant. I do think that it goes with the character or G-d, at least for those who really wanted to worship the only true G-d. May G-d reveal His truth to you, me and everybody that seeks Him.
“…my wife and my friends think he is. ”
Remi, that’s tough, especially when it comes to one’s spouse. I am thankful that my wife investigated things with me and we both came to the same understanding. It was not easy, of course, for either one of us.
“Hi Bruce, “proofs” are always in brackets… Never enough to convince anybody that he is wrong. ”
Absolutely true. I find that one has to be already in the process of questioning on their own and that resources like mine are there to help facilitate further investigation and discovery. However, it’s also true that some will be spontaneously “convicted” when confronted with facts and I’ve seen that happen as well, but they tend to be those who are honest with themselves.
Hard, of course. The first month I wanted to leave… She still ask me: Why did you forsake the Lord? Or she makes allusion that I am the seed on the rocky hill that wither away, an apostate or a heretic. I used to preach the D’var at my congregation. Now, everybody know that I don’t believe in him anymore. I still go there, because I have to drive my wife and my son. My son ask me why I don’t trust in the Lord? He is only 4 and I just cannot talk about it without a fight… The elders at my congregation all told my wife that I should not talk about G-d to my son, nor pray with him :( And for now… I just keep myself shut, because that would make things worst if I would explain him, because it would finish in argument. There is a reason why men, specifically, should not marry foreign women… But in the end, G-d has a higher purpose and I have to trust that His plan is good. Shema Ysrael!
Remi, may Hashem help you – by your account you are going through hard trial. I’ve lost or have been alienated from many formerly close Christian/Messianic friends. Thankfully, my extended family is Jewish (although not very observant), so I’ve grown closer to them and have become the source of Torah and yiddishkeit for them.
Remi as Gene said may Hashem help you.
Oh and Chanukah Sameach to you guys!
May His light shines in darkness….
Verily, the kindnesses of the Lord never cease! Indeed, His mercies never fail!
They are new every morning; great is Your faithfulness.
“The Lord is my portion,” says my soul; “therefore I will hope in Him.”
The Lord is good to those who wait for Him, to the soul that seeks Him.
It is good that one should wait quietly for the salvation of the Lord.
It is good for a man that he bear a yoke in his youth.
Let him sit solitary and wait, for He has laid [it] upon him.
Let him put his mouth into the dust; there may yet be hope.
Let him offer his cheek to his smiter; let him be filled with reproach.
For the Lord will not cast [him] off forever.
Though he cause grief, He will yet have compassion according to the abundance of His kindness.
For He does not willingly afflict or grieve the sons of man. .
[Or] crush under His feet all the prisoners of the earth.
[Or] turn aside the right of a man in the presence of the Most High.
To subvert a man in his cause, the Lord does not approve.
Who has commanded and it came to pass, unless the Lord ordained it?
[And] by the command of the Most High, neither good nor evil come.
Why should a living man complain? A man for his sins.
Let us search and examine our ways, and let us return to the Lord.
Let us lift up our hearts to our hands, to God in heaven.
Remi…. beautiful scriptures.
Chanukah Sameach to you and BG, and to all who search out Hashem with all of their hearts.
I’m a Christian, However, i do follow a lot of the Jewish culture in our home. to me God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, and it is written that no one will go to the Father unless through Him(Jesus). Jesus also said that He will send the Comforter, the Holy Spirit who will dwell within us. I read the Bible and believe what is written, i believe that we are saved by the Blood of Jesus, the Lamb of God, the ultimate offering given unto us. I believe that our sins has been forgiven.and therefore must endeavour not to sin no more and when we do sin, we must declare our sin to the Almighty so that we can not be charged for that no more. that is what i believe, the NT has replaced the OT that is why i believe that we don’t have to give offerings such as animals or anything else, but to offer your live to the Almighty. One must become like a child. i believe that the Holy Spirit speak and guide us each and every day and we need to be still to hear His voice. I did not read all the comments but wrote this as what was placed on my heart to write. the end time is near and we all must prepare for His return as it is written and Promised when taken away on a cloud. Remi you have said so a many true word, as we must Clothe ourselves with the armorment of God, helmet, breast plate, belt, sandals, shield and sword. each day is a new miracle given by God to us. we have so much to be thankful for. when we live in the word, the word will overflow our lips. please correct me if i’m wrong. i thank you all. Amen and Amen.
Shalom.
Andries, one may believe in whatever (and billions of people do), but if you are worshiping a human being or any other creature or creation of G-d, if you call it “god” (regardless of who or what you think that creature actually is – your beliefs do not change the reality) you are committing the sin of idolatry against the True G-d.
Hi Andries, please read Deuteronomy 4:
“Only be careful, and watch yourselves closely so that you do not forget the things your eyes have seen or let them fade from your heart as long as you live. Teach them to your children and to their children after them. 10 Remember the day you stood before the Lord your God at Horeb, when he said to me, “Assemble the people before me to hear my words so that they may learn to revere me as long as they live in the land and may teach them to their children.” 11 You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain while it blazed with fire to the very heavens, with black clouds and deep darkness. 12 Then the Lord spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. 13 He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets. 14 And the Lord directed me at that time to teach you the decrees and laws you are to follow in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess.
15 You saw no form of any kind the day the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, 16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, 17 or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, 18 or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below. 19 And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the Lord your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven. 20 But as for you, the Lord took you and brought you out of the iron-smelting furnace, out of Egypt, to be the people of his inheritance, as you now are.”
Jesus was not there, He was not at Mount Sinai, nobody would have think that G-d had a body, our fathers (the Jewish people) were not worshipping Jesus, so we should not worship Jesus, this is plain and simple. You may said that there are thousand of proof that Jesus is the Messiah, but scriptures were twisted by the CHURCH for you to believe that they are. For example, Genesis 3, you may say that the serpent was Satan, but even if you arrive at that conclusion, all women have seeds (see Agar’s seed translated as descendent in your bible to hide that fact). So the messiah must be born from a woman, Duh! And if you say that Jesus is the only one that crushed Satan, well, it has not happened yet according to Romans 9, Jesus will SOON crush Satan. You may only find vague passages that look like it could be Jesus. That’s all, but the NT writers used them to indoctrinated you to think it is OK to worship Jesus. Isaiah 7 does not talk about a virgin birth, Psalm 2, Jesus never ruled over the whole world. Most Proof that Jesus is the messiah has not happened yet. He never reign, so why it is a proof?
Shalom,
If one were to believe that Yeshua is G-d, Yeshua would not be an idol as He is neither a creation of man nor a creation of G-d. [Deuteronomy 4]
And does HaShem really have any creation to whom He equally would allow to sit by His side? [Psalm 110]
So, if no man can see G-d and live, why would it be impossible that when THE L-RD met and ate with Abraham by the oaks of Mamre, it was actually Yeshua, the “Son of Man” with whom he broke bread? [Genesis 18, Daniel 7]
Why would G-d really find it necessary to speak to Himself in the third person? For example,
****Zechariah 10:12
“I will make them strong in the LORD, and they shall walk in his name,” declares the LORD.
_________________________________________________________
From creation, Elohim tries to explain Himself as “echad”– a unified plurality– so how is it impossible to believe that Elohim reveals Himself as Father, Son of Man, and Ruach HaKodesh? [Genesis 1, Deuteronomy 6, Daniel 7, et al]
“If one were to believe that Yeshua is G-d, Yeshua would not be an idol as He is neither a creation of man nor a creation of G-d. [Deuteronomy 4]”
Kavi, you may believe that a “dog” is a “god” and worship it and make all sorts of claims about its supposed exalted status, but your beliefs do not change the reality that only G-d is G-d and no man (or dog) is god. So, you are still committing gross idolatry by worshiping a dead man and you won’t have justification for it, like pleading ignorance, when you stand before your Maker. If you insist on continuing in your idolatry, you too will join the masses of your fellow Christians alongside those of all other religions who have worshiped idols and believed lies, you too will stand there shamefacedly and admit:
The choice is yours. You can choose to repent, worship and obey the G-d of Israel and Him alone, or you can chose to worship and follow your “ba’al” (that is “lord”), your dead idol, a human being that Christianity elevated as its god, while it hated, persecuted and murdered the people of G-d, the people of Israel.
Kavi, Genesis 18 was a angel, the writer of Hebrews closed the matter:
“Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.”
If it would have been G-d, he would have say “Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to God”, but he did not say that. An angel is a messenger, and a messenger in not the King, but someone that speak on behalf of the King. When I see a Canadian Governor, I do not see the Queen, but I know he speaks in her behalf, that is the same with malach.
Remi,
Kindly visit chabad.org to read the Torah where we find that THE L-RD met with Abraham face to face and they ate together [Genesis 18].
Gene,
I understand the fear that comes with facing judgment before a Holy G-d– to be honest, I have lived much of my life terrorized by it. It is why I turned to HaShem’s redemption through Emunah in Yeshua– it is the only way to find absolute Shalom in His promise of the “sure mercies of David”.
Is there truly absolute proof that Yeshua is just a man or that He is still stone dead?
_____________________________________
David says that G-d will not let His Holy One decay in the grave [Psalm 16]
Daniel also prophesies that a Mashiach would be killed prior to the second Temple’s destruction and yet we find the “Son of Man” alive in glory [Daniel 9; Daniel 7]
Likewise, Isaiah proclaims that a Holy One must suffer, die, and rise again [Isaiah 53]
_____________________________________
To me, the evidence from the Tanakh is conclusive that Yeshua is alive and sitting at the right hand of HaShem [Psalm 110]
“Son of man”, “holy one”, whatever, none of these either speak of the Messiah , expressly, directly or indirectly (one would have to resort to midrash, as Rashi did with Daniel, even through the context speaks of people of Israel) , none point to him, and none certainly to Jesus. In context, those isolated phrases carry none of the meanings you wish to assign to them. These verses were ripped out (often crudely misquoted, as NT does to Daniel and his “like the son of man” direction of coming in the clouds) and applied by the writers of the NT to their demigod hero, as they penned of Jesus’ imaginary miracles (most of which were plagiarized from the Hebrew Bible).
Hi Kavi, in Judaism, there is no way Abraham would have take to a walking god in flesh and talked and gave bread. Maybe you misunderstood Chabad. Even if the great Rabbi would tell me that god was walking and talking with Abraham, I would not believe him, because it would contradict the very essence of G-d. Also, you should believe your new testament when it say that it was an angel. It would not contradict your bible, but nevertheless, you are so eager to find Jesus in the old testament, that anything that could fit him will work. Just like paslm 16, it does not talk about Jesus, but David is praying and know that the L-rd will not let the rigtheous in Sheol. I could hardly imagin Jesus, as sinless god in the flesh, saying “You are my Lord; apart from you I have no good thing.” But David could say that. Just like Psalm 2, Psalm 22, Psalm 45 and pslam 110 do not speak of Jesus, Psalm 16, definitively does not talk about Jesus.
Kavi, Genesis 18 says that the three individuals who Abraham encountered were “men” or “anashim” in Hebrew. (Genesis 18:3) The “man in question” is mentioned on par with the other two men.
So you ask me how I know this man is an angel? In order to come to this conclusion, we need to evaluate the totality of scripture. In Genesis 32, Jacob encounters another “man.” (Genesis 32:25.) This same “man” is referred to as an “angel” in Hosea 12:5, literally using the Hebrew word “malach.” Why is this significant you ask? Well remember the three “men” who Abraham encountered in Genesis 18:3? Two of those “men” are explicitly referred to as “angel” or “malachim” in Genesis 19:1! So if the two “men” who appeared to Abraham can be referred to as “angels” and “men” interchangeably, surely the “man” who Jacob encountered in Genesis 32:25 can also be referred to as an “angel,” just as Hosea 12:5 says! By the same token, the three “men” who appeared to Abraham in Genesis 18 are also understood to be “angels.” It doesn’t say “two men and one godman.” You’re the one who is eisegetically adding that to the text!
My interpretation is consistent with other angelic appearances found within the Tanach. Yours is completely without foundation, Kavi. You are randomly assigning the title “pre-incarnate jesus angel” to anonymous angels who aren’t even referred to in the same manner in scripture. For example, the angel “in question” in Genesis 18 is not referred to as “angel of the Lord.” Yet you and other christians wish to peddle the title “angel of the Lord” as a code word for “jesus angel.” You have given no effective way to differentiate between these supposed “jesus angels” and “just regular old angels.” Is the “the angel of the Lord” mentioned in Zechariah 3 synonymous with “the angel of the Lord” mentioned in Exodus 3? Why or why not?
Ultimately, Deuteronomy 4:9-19 thwarts any eisegetical attempt made by a christian to try and deify angels in the Tanach. Your “great jesus angel hunt” is a wild goose chase. If you want to disobey G-d’s explicit commands not to worship Him in any form, then that’s your prerogative…
And that’s a real shame…
Kavi, I am confused why you come to the conclusion that the Melchizedek priesthood relates exclusively to jesus…I am not convinced that it refers to jesus at all…But I have no problem with it having a Messianic connotation to it as well.
You will find in the Talmud that Abraham, King David, and even the Messiah are called as being fulfillments of this Psalm. One of the most striking commonalities between King David and Abraham is that they both “crushed kings” with the help of Hashem. This directly correlates with Psalms 110:5, which explicitly states this:
Psalms 110:5. The Lord, on your right hand, **has crushed kings** on the day of His wrath.
Now Kavi, during jesus’s lifetime, did jesus “crush kings”? Was he successful in defeating his enemies? Were his enemies “made a footstool at his feet”? (Psalms 110:1) Clearly not! Your jesus was killed and failed to fulfill the Messianic prophesies outlined in the Tanach. As it stands, jesus has fulfilled none of Psalms 110 in any tangible sense. You can argue that he will fulfill it in his supposed “second coming,” but to claim that jesus has fulfilled any of this Psalm would be completely baseless as it stands…
Another oddity about your understanding about this “Melchizedek priesthood” is that you believe that jesus’s bloodshed “atoned for the sins of the world.” Where in the Tanach does it state that the Melchizedek priesthood achieves atonement via the blood sacrifice? The only priesthood that was given this divine instruction that I know of was the Levitical priesthood…If you could find a passage in the Tanach which states that the “Melchizedek priesthood” achieves atonement via “blood sacrifice,” then maybe your position would make a little more sense. But as it stands, you appear to be baselessly asserting that this Melchizedek priesthood has “superior atoning power” in comparison to the Levitical priesthood, when there is nothing in the Tanach that indicates that the Melchizedek priesthood deals with blood atonement at all! I hope you will consider these concerns.
Shalom
I just wanted to add that the word “The” as “The Angel” is added for no reason in the xtian bible. Most of the time, there is no “The”/”Ha” in the original hebrew. It is something that anyone can check out. If it is not a specific angel, then it cannot refer to the Preincarnate Jesus. And of course, how many times did he have a supernatural birth to have a body?
Remi,
Genesis 18
None of these three from Heaven are said to be walking, talking, eating, or drinking as those with bones/flesh/skin– I am very much a stickler to the Text, so I hope you understand that neither would I say these three are just like mankind.
Psalm 16:10
My understanding leads me to see a significant difference between Sheol and the Pit– David was not abandoned Sheol and Yeshua was not abandoned to the [empty] tomb.
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Yehuda,
I very much like your comments [here and in other blog threads] because you try to read the Tanakh and find the parallels within them– this work [and it really does take work] is highly exemplary.
**Now, back to Genesis 18 . . .
First, we agree that two “men” are angels– but we now have a problem identifying the third “man”. Why? Because only One speaks in Ch 18:17-33 and that One is identified solely as THE L-RD.
**Psalm 110
The One sitting at HaShem’s right hand is “waiting” for the G-d’s wrath to take place– even if one disagrees as to who David speaks about, we both know the day of G-d’s wrath has not yet taken place.
Note: Melchizedek– I have written nothing about Melchizedek nor blood atonement nor made any reference to joining them together. Are we thinking maybe of someone else?
I hope you continue to comment so that I can better understand your logic– we may still disagree, but at least we will understand each other.
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Hi Kavi, we may argue a lot on who was the third person in Genesis 18, did he wash his feet? Did he actually eat the food? Was he a man, a angel with a spiritual body or a god?
Well, that’s pretty much the trick with every false doctrine and every conspiracy theory. It looks like it is G-d speaking and G-d said He does not have a body. So I give you my explanation, it is Jesus, god in the Flesh, the preincarnate Christ. If not there is a contradiction in the bible. But may I ask you Kavi, what does the text talk about? What is Genesis 18 main point? Is it here to teach about G-d’s attribute? Is it the main purpose of Genesis 18? If you compare to Deuteuronomy 4, the text teaches Idolatry and not to worship any form, that G-d has no form. That talks about His attribute, but Genesis 18 does not. It talks about showing compassion to stranger, just like the writer of Hebrews saw it. Just like Paslm 16 talks about a prayer of mercy to G-d, not a prophecy about Jesus. If you try to grab something out of context, you may arrive at any weird theology.
Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree. 5 Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant.”
Remi,
Does Deuteronomy 4 truly say G-d has “no form” whatsoever? Without over-reaching, we find that the Text only says that Yisrael did not “see” G-d’s image on that day at Sinai– so they should not try to conjure up something made with their own hands nor something G-d created in heavens.
From the beginning, we see Elohim say, “Let Us make man in Our image.”
We also see in Daniel 7 a description of the “Ancient of Days”.
YOUR INTERPRETATION OF DEUTERONNOMY 4 WOULD STILL MAKE AN INCARNATION IMPOSSIBLE TO ACCEPT VIS THE TORAH PERSPECTIVE AND JUDAISM Kavi, and even your own New Testament tells us why this incarnation belief is unstable and unsuitable TO DETERMINE TRUTH from A TORAH VIEWPOINT.
ISRAEL WASNT SHOWN A FORM. IF G-D WANTED TO TEACH INCARNATION, SINAI WOULD HAVE BEEN THE BEST TIME TO ISSUE COMMANDMENTS CONCERNING IT. HE DIDNT ERGO IT ISNT JUDAISM.
EVEN THE NT ITSELF SHOWS HOW UNRELIABILE AND IDOLATROOUS A BELIEF IN AN INCARNATION IS WITH ITS TRADITION ABOUT AN ANTICHRIST. Read revelation 13. MIRACLES AND CLAIMS TO DEITY PROVE NOTHING, ONLY FAITHFULNESS TO THE COMMANDMENTS PROVES TRUTH VALUE.
Notice that the beast IN CHAPTER 13 (antichrist) RECIEVES A DEADLY WOUND AND IS HEALED WHICH PROMPTS HUMANS TO WORSHIP HIM AS G-d. cf. 2 Thessalonians 2 below.
THE ANTICHRIST FIGURE IS JUST LIKE YOUR JESUS BUT IS DESCRIBED AS COMPLETELY FALSE/LAWLESS SHOWING THAT BELIEVING THAT SOMEBODY IS G-D MADE FLESH (BECAUSE OF A RESURRECTION OR OTHER MIRACLES) IS UNSUITABLE FOR ESTABLISHING TRUTH!
2 Thessalonians 2: 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
JEWS AVOID THIS PROBLEM ALTOGETHER BECAUSE JEWS WERE “SHOWN TO KNOW” THAT THEY SAW NO FORM ON MOUNT HOREB WHEN G-D spoke, THEY ONLY HEARD A VOICE. THEY KNOW OUTRIGHT THAT ANY MAN WHO CLAIMS TO BE HASHEM IS A LIAR, BECAUSE HAD IT BEEN G-D’S WILL TO BE INCARNATE, HE WOULD HAVE MADE IT KNOWN TO JEWS AT SINAI. PROPHETS ARE VALIDATED BY BEING FAITHFUL TO THE COMMANDMENTS, NOT BY DOING MIRACLES.
WHETHER HASHEM HAS FORM OR NOT IS IRRELEVANT TO THE QUESTION AT HAND KAVI BECAUSE G-D DID NOT COMMAND ISRAEL ON SINAI TO SERVE HIM IN A GIVEN FORM. EVEN IF THERE WERE HYPITHETICALLY A FORM OF G-D, MIRACLES AND CLAIMS TO BE “THE ONE” WOULDNT PROVE IT TO BE TRUE AS EVEN YOUR TEXT ADMITS.
G-DLY LIVING IN THE LIGHT OF G-D’s COMMANDMENTS AS OUTLINED IN TORAH IS THE ONLY TOOL THE BIBLE GIVES HUMANS TO DISCERN THE TRUTH AND DIVIDE IT FROM FALSEHOOD. SEE BELOW (PAY ATTENTION TO THE HIGHLIGTS)
13 “If a prophet or someone who has dreams arises among you and proclaims a sign or wonder to you, 2 and that sign or wonder HE HAS PROMISED YOU COMES ABOUT, but he says, ‘Let us follow other gods,’ WHICH YOU HAVE NOT KNOWN, ‘and let us worship them,’ 3 do not listen to that prophet’s words or to that dreamer. For the Lord your GOD IS TESTING YOU to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul. 4 You must follow the Lord your God and fear Him. YOU MUST KEEP HIS COMMANDS and listen to His voice; you must worship Him and REMAIN FAITHFUL[a] to Him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he has urged rebellion against the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the place of slavery, TO TURN YOU FROM THE WAY THE LORD YOUR GOD COMMANDED YOU TO WALK. You must purge the evil from you.
A CHANGE IN THE LAW AS COMMANDED AT SINAI IS A DEAD GIVEAWAY OF A FALSE PROPHET
Kavi, Concerned reader is correct. Can you please show me in the Tanach where Hashem tells us that we must worship Him as his supposed “only son” who is also Himself? Can you please show me in the Tanach where Hashem says that He is actually some man named “yeshua” and that we are to devote our worship to him as our “lord and savior” and Creator? (Chas v’shalom!)
Of course you cannot! The reason why is that Hashem is not your “yeshua.”
Hashem gave explicit commands to Israel that we are not to worship Him in ANY FORM. I already posted on Deuteronomy 4:9-19, so lets approach this from your perspective this time around:
Lets start at verse 9, shall we?
Deut 4:9. But beware and watch yourself very well, lest you forget the things that your eyes saw, and lest these things depart from your heart, all the days of your life, and you shall make them known to your children and to your children’s children,
Here we see that G-d is commanding Israel to teach these things throughout their generations. G-d is directly telling Israel to teach their children about the things they saw and the things on their hearts. What are these things you ask? Lets continue reading:
Deut 4:10. the day you stood before the Lord your God at Horeb, when the Lord said to me, “Assemble the people for Me, and I will let them hear My words, that they may learn to fear Me all the days that they live on the earth, and that they may teach their children.
Now Kavi, how would you interpret this verse? Would you agree that the commands in the following verses from the mouth of Hashem Himself are to be kept throughout our generations? Clearly, the text says that we are to do so…Lets keep reading and see how consistent your position is with what Hashem desires of you and me as children of Israel…
Deut 4:11. And you approached and stood at the foot of the mountain, and the mountain burned with fire up to the midst of the heavens, with darkness, a cloud, and opaque darkness.
Deut 4:12. The Lord spoke to you out of the midst of the fire; you heard the sound of the words, but saw no image, just a voice.
Here we have G-d explaining to the children of Israel what they “saw.” *Notice that what they “saw” was no image according to G-d *
Now Kavi, remember what Hashem said about teaching this to our children and our children’s children? *Why do you think Hashem is emphasizing the fact that we saw no form of Hashem when He spoke to us?* This is clearly something that Hashem wants us to teach to our children. That’s what the text says! Lets move on…
Deut 4:13. And He told you His covenant, which He commanded you to do, the Ten Commandments, and He inscribed them on two stone tablets.
Deut 4:14. And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and ordinances, so that you should do them in the land to which you are crossing, to possess.
This verse is important to read in context with the next few verses because it reiterates the fact that *these commands are not just a “one time deal.” Rather, G-d is commanding Israel not to acknowledge Him in any form throughout all our generations!* With this in mind, lets continue reading:
Deut 4:15. And you shall watch yourselves very well, for you did not see any image on the day that the Lord spoke to you at Horeb from the midst of the fire.
Kavi, don’t you find it interesting that Hashem is once again emphasizing to Israel that *they saw no form* when they heard Hashem speak? Don’t you find it interesting that Hashem made it very clear that He wanted Israel to teach this fact to their children and their children’s children throughout their generations? The next verse makes it clear as day as to what Hashem wanted Israel to do in light of Deuteronomy 4:9…Lets read the next verse together
Deut 4:16. Lest you become corrupt and make for yourselves a graven image, the representation of ANY FORM, the likeness of MALE or female,
Kavi, how would you interpret this verse in light of your worship of your “yeshua”? It appears as though you would interpret it like this:
Kaviconomy 4:16 Lest you become corrupt and make yourself a graven image, the representation of any form, the likeness of male or female, *EXCEPT FOR MY SON “yeshua” WHO IS ALSO ME IN THE FLESH. YOU MUST WORSHIP THAT MAN AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR AND MESSIAH IN THE FUTURE WHEN he COMES. IN FACT, JUST FORGET ABOUT TEACHING YOUR CHILDREN ABOUT HOW YOU SAW NO FORM AT SINAI BECAUSE I AM ACTUALLY A MAN NAMED yeshua!*
Kavi, if you truly loved Hashem, then you would listen to His explicit command not to worship Him in ANY FORM. It is very clear that you do not care what Hashem has to say concerning how He wishes us to worship Him. Instead, you have followed the words of men…Yes, men! You claim to be a follower of “yeshua,” yet your “yeshua” never claimed to be “the angel of the Lord” or any other angel who appeared to men in the Tanach. So not only are you following a false messiah and a false god, but you are also following a made up idea that your false messiah/false god never claimed to be!
There’s no way around it Kavi…Your jesus is not Hashem and he is not Moshiach!
Shalom
Yehuda, this is clear teaching, people tried to convinced me again that Jesus is god. They arrive with Psalm 45 and Isaiah 9 to prove that Jesus is god, but that makes no sense when you read Deut 4. All this makes not sense, but they will just not listen, throwing all logic, they will find excuses to follow Jesus.
“All this makes not sense, but they will just not listen, throwing all logic, they will find excuses to follow Jesus.”
Idolatry is a very powerful human condition, Remi. We wish to create gods in our own image (e.g. Jesus) and endow them with qualities we esteem (which can differ from culture to culture). This way we can control the gods and their message – and that’s why there are so many Christianities and Christian cults, each teaching something else about Jesus.
Shalom!
The Tanakh is full of evidence that Yeshua is HaMashiach– but why does HaShem, the Father, hide not only Himself but His Anointed One as well?
The answer is Emunah– no one can please HaShem without it.
Abraham was granted righteousness [i.e., holiness] through his Emunah– and no one else can come into the presence of Elohim in any other way.
As to idolatry– can the Torah also not be made into an idol by mankind? Even the ancient Mizraim believed that their salvation was dependent on the scales of their ‘good’ works outweighing the ‘bad’.
_________________________________
So, if we take another look at the Book of Daniel, we find more evidence that Yeshua is not an idol:
[] The word “pelach” or יִפְלְח֑וּן [in this form, it only occurs three times in the Tanakh– all in the Book of Daniel]
***Daniel 3:28
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego would not “serve” the idol of Nebuchadnezzar.
***Daniel 7:27
All dominions shall “serve” the Most High.
***Daniel 7:14
However, we find that the Son of Man is to be “served” by all mankind.
Again, the most reasonable conclusion– L-rd Yeshua, this “Son of Man”, is NOT an idol.
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Hi Kavi, Abraham believed what G-d say, not that G-d existed or that Melchizedek was a god. Sadrach, Mesach and Abednego refused to bow to other gods and would have refused to bow to Jesus as well. Daniel 7:27 does say that we should serve the Most High. And for Daniel 7:14, what makes you think that the son of man was Jesus anyway. It would make sense that it would be Israel, an actual kingdom that G-d promised he will raise up. Please note that this is another so call proof that has not happened yet. Jesus never came to rule anything, he is not a king and so we cannot use those kind of passages to prove that Jesus is the messiah. He never ruled over Israel ans was never anointed. Can you actually talks about proofs that actually happened. We have no proof that Jesus will come with the cloud and so to establish his right to be worship as part of the so call godhead, we will need something that have actually happened to prove that G-d really meant that his is a three-in-one god. Please, where are those evidences!
Everyone else but me here, at least in terms of your words, has missed the point. Getting to the truth takes work and patience most don’t have. But like obtaining the method for solving the rubik’s cube, once you have it all the metaphors/parables of Tanach line up neatly in a single scheme. It all makes sense. Now to the most important aspect of Truth,=Torah.: If you know someone distantly you might call him “Mr Smith”. But if you know him better, you might call him “John”. Or if you are a family member, you might call him “Dad”. In the Tanach, a name is a description of a thing. G-d has many names, describing Him from different points of view, as above. But the truth is that by whatever name, if you are talking about the same man/entity/whatever, you will be describing the same attributes. You will “know him when you see him”. That is why I HATE it, when people make the blanket statement that we are all worshipping the same G-d. Different religions apply to G-d different attributes. They are, self evidently, not talking about the same G-d. So, on to the question of the G-d of Torah: Here it is plain and simple. The truth so simple, so obvious, but painful to look at. Like staring into the heart of a star, we avoid it at all costs. The truth is that if what we see is all there is, as individuals, we amount to nothing. Here and gone in the blink of an eye, eventually leaving no trace. This description of US is mathematically provable based on an understanding of chaos and the entropic processes that drive all activity in our universe. ONLY in our connections to others, people, G-d, etc. can we transcend the transience=nothingness, of the individual. In what we give in service of a larger construct of life/lives which endures after we are gone. The largest construct in Tanach is a G-d who in terms of His description/name has no limitations of any sort. Not in time, space, power or knowledge=the bush which does not burn=endurance which transcends entropy. This is why Moses, who received the Torah, was “the most humble of all men”. He looked at his own inconsequentiality straight on. Saw that he was “hevel” (Abel)=a breath=the futility of transience. Thus Tanach’s general definition of what is “good”=service of what endures=kindness=love your neighbor as yourself=a higher valuation of the other and a lesser valuation of the self=humility. Evil is the service of the self at the expense of others=a valuation of the self above others=pride=a disconnection from the eternal in favor of the transient=death. As in “Behold I place before you LIVES and good, DEATH and evil” as stated in Tanach. The “knowledge of good AND evil” reflects the natural human ambivalence wherein sometimes I serve myself/my own desire, and sometimes I am linked/connected in service to the larger construct. Above is the larger description of G-d/what is GOOD, which does not get lost in discussion of whether it is “John” or “Mr Smith” or “Dad”, etc. In service, as the cells/parts of our bodies attest (=we are “made in His image”) different lives can integrate to become one unity/life=”He is ONE”=”The LORD of HOSTS”=unity of diversity. All the rest of the discussion by others above is misdirected/distraction. The real question is not “who” He is but WHAT He is. Michael
So you write a one paragraph article about this supposed encounter but include no hard facts on what you actually said to the guy that supposedly shook him up and this is even worth commenting on. ..not
“So you write a one paragraph article about this supposed encounter but include no hard facts on what you actually said to the guy that supposedly shook him up ”
Ann, did you read my post? “As I brought up the biblical verses, one after another, where G-d over and over said to Israelites that He was not a man, that He can’t ever die, that we are not to place our trust in other human beings for our salvation, that we are to love Him above all else, that there’s no one next to G-d, he was actually shocked about the possibility that worshiping Jesus is in fact idolatry. He had so many questions.”
My website is filled with “hard facts”, including various verses where all of the above things are mentioned (verse which students of the Bible would already know by heart). To list all the verses again in this post would have been redundant and would take away from the main point I was trying to make.
if u believe in jesus u r a christian not a jew.
That’s not true Melanie, if your mother was a Jew, you are a Jew, even if you are atheist or believe in Jesus.
RM and Melanie, you are both right in a way. A Jew cannot ever stop being a Jew. Israelites have sinned many times, going after false gods and foreign religions on numerous occasions, but they remained Israel.
That said, believing in Jesus as he is portrayed in the NT (or in any other false deity) puts a Jew outside of the Jewish fold. It renders him or her religiously “non-Jewish” for practical purposes in regards to many areas of the Jewish law (or halacha) and Jewish life overall (with a few notable exceptions, e.g. divorce and ability to return back to Judaism without conversion). Speaking from Judaism’s point of view, one definitely cannot live as both a Jew in good standing and a worshiper of Jesus (a Christian) at the same time – one must chose one or the other to paraphrase Elijah from 1 Kings 18:21. But one cannot cease being a Jew.
Thank you for your article. Yes. A Jew is a Jew. And a spiritual Jew is a spiritual Jew. I think.
– The real Jew is one inwardly; and true circumcision is of the heart, spiritual not literal; so that his praise comes not from other people but from God.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+2&version=CJB
I love people who love their country.
I bless Israel.
I’m a Finn. Flags are interesting.
Nations are interesting.
http://www.britam.org/HebrewOverview.html
Sorry to tell you, yurki, but that Britam site is a bunch of nonsense.
Thanks for telling me Gene. How could we know the genuine genes of Jacob? Joseph Dumond says that some of the Issachar came to Finland (from 45:39).
Blessings
Jyrki
Issachar came to Finland, right! I knew I was from the tribe of Dan, somebody asked me if I was a Jew once, and even if I am not, I must be! Furthermore, look at my first name… Remi, sounds nothing Jewish! Well, think about it, Je”REMI”ah! That’s it! see, point proven, i am from the lost tribe of Dan!
“How could we know the genuine genes of Jacob? ”
Jyrki, do as a people Fins have any Semitic genes in them that can be traced to the Middle East the way most ethnic Jews have?
I’d rather the land of Cana”d”an then JerUSAlem… USA is not the center of the world, but let’s not talk about politics and which country is better… USA is just not in the Bible, and the lost tribe of Israel are lost, and Christians who think they are part of Israel because they could have had a lost gene of a distant Jew is irrelevant. Just because you believe in Jesus does not make you from a lost tribe! Most of the lost tribe Jews would be Muslims in today’s world, not Christians!
Jews: “Messiah will come.” Christians: “Messiah will return.” What does the Bible say?
“Jews: “Messiah will come.” Christians: “Messiah will return.” What does the Bible say?”
The Jewish Bible certainly doesn’t say anything about “messiah will return”. That’s the Christian excuse for the failure of their messianic candidate. In fact, that’s the same excuse that was applied by the faithful to other failed messianic candidates who died without ever fulfilling messianic requirements.
Thanks for your piece of information Gene. Why do they build the temple?
https://www.google.fi/#q=3rd%20temple%20being%20built
We follow the events of the world and see we are in the end times. I believe that Messiah may come/return to Jerusalem within the time period of 14.5.2023 – 13.5.2024 when Israel is 75 because Abraham started to move toward the promised land when he was 75.
– So Avram went, as Adonai had said to him, and Lot went with him. Avram was 75 years old when he left Haran.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+12&version=CJB
Blessings
Jyrki
It’s not the first one that sets a date, and you won’t be the first who will be wrong! Chances are, you won’t even remember your false guess! Since Jesus himself said his return was going to be “imminent” most bible believer have thought they were in the last hour. I guess it’s has something to do with the desire to have proof that they are right. You may want to add 75 years to the birth of Israel, but seriously, it’s just what it is; an educate guess. But again, Jesus won’t come back, remember Peter said in 33 AD that it was the last days! We all know that it was the end, and stars felt, blood and fire and billows of smoke came down the earth… Yes of course!
Thanks Real. I try to clarify.
Act of Creation = 6 days work + 1 day rest.
Time given to the Creation = 6.000 years of thistles + 1.000 years rest.
I think Jesus may snatch His bride anytime because we are in the 7th Millennium. Let’s be awake.
Blessings
Jyrki
Calculations of the very possible end time for the coming of the true Messiah and the redemption cannot be known. Daniel had to seal up his revelation. Nobody can know for sure, because then that would annul free choice. People would wait to the last minute to do teshuva, if they even know what teshuva is, instead of doing it every day as is necessary.
New post on my blog, btw.
Thanks Aaron. Be blessed.
I see the peace will come when the remnant of Israel calls her King “hosanna”.
Luke 13:35 (CJB) Look! God is abandoning your house to you! I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of Adonai!’”
Hosea 6:2 After two days, he will revive us; on the third day, he will raise us up; and we will live in his presence.
Deuteronomy 30:6 Then Adonai your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your children, so that you will love Adonai your God with all your heart and all your being, and thus you will live.
Hosea 2:18 (16) “On that day,” says Adonai “you will call me Ishi [My Husband]; you will no longer call me Ba‘ali [My Master].
Blessings
Jyrki
Yurki, you’re welcome.
Do you know what “hosana” means…?
Did you know the Torah was only given to Israel, as it says in Tanakh in many places, and should by obvious by the narrative…
And it says in Tanakh that having a heart a flesh, a circumcised heart (a prophecy delivered only to the Jewish people, again) is accepting the Torah and doing the commandments with heart, soul, and action?
So obviously, accepting a dead heretic bastard child who claimed he was god and the literal son of God would be the exact opposite, it would be having a heart of stone, an uncircumcised heart, since it would mean rejecting the Torah which says God is one and not a man. Plainly, in the plain written text.
I think hosana means God saves. Or if I shout HOSANA I mean “God save me now”.
The best thing is that soon God will unite Abraham’s sons and peace will start.
> Abraham’s Territory…but not yet! Egypt, Assyria, Israel
Isaiah 19:25 prophesies of this trio saying, “Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.” Here we see the descendants of the 3 wives of Abraham linked together. Assyria is located in the north by the Euphrates, Egypt is located in the south by the Nile and Israel lies smack dab between them, with a road that will connect the three in the future. This alliance of Abraham’s descendents does not exist yet, but will be established in the Kingdom of God, as shown by Isaiah 19:23.
“In that day (will be established in the Kingdom of God) there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria. The Assyrians will go to Egypt and the Egyptians to Assyria. The Egyptians and Assyrians will worship together. In that day Israel will be the third, along with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing on the earth. <
Blessings
Jyrki
It means save now/please. It’s not a request to a man-god idol to “save” them from some imaginary damnation.
“I think Jesus may snatch His bride anytime”…
That’s going to be at his third coming! You know, there is no reason why I should think he will actually fulfil a prophecy when he comes back, because, let’s face the truth, he did not fulfil anything the first time.
But that does not nullify he messiahship, because he could come a third or fourth time… Who knows, nowhere in the Bible it says that the messiah was to come a second time, so, logically speaking, he could come again, and again and again and at his X coming, finally snatch his bride, or steal G-d’s bride, I dare you!
Thanks Aaron and The Real. I think we all agree that the King of the kings will bring the peace. Peace is always God’s work.
BIN sends me email:
– Breaking Israel News offers news from Israel from an Orthodox Jewish perspective to both Jewish and Christian readers. We encourage open dialogue and welcome respectful questions.
http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/64314/genesis-223/
About The Time
– “The smallest shall become a thousand and the least a mighty nation; I am the Lord, in its time I will hasten it.” (Isaiah 60:22)
http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/53767/
– “’And thou, son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it: For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions; then take another stick, and write upon it: For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and of all the house of Israel his companions; and join them for thee one to another into one stick, that they may become one in thy hand.” (Ezekiel 37:16-17)
http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/60606/
– “I will cause the cities to be inhabited, and the waste places shall be builded. And the land that was desolate shall be tilled, whereas it was a desolation in the sight of all that passed by.” (Ezekiel 36:33-34)
http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/62401/
Blessings
Jyrki
Yes but the King of kings is NOT Jesus riding on a white horse!
Our ancestors possessed nothing but false gods (like Jesus, a man deified), worthless idols that did them no good. Jer 16:19
For the other verses, that says nothing about Jesus… I don’t see your point!
“It means save now/please. It’s not a request to a man-god idol to “save” them from some imaginary damnation.”
You must BELIEVE Aaron, believe in the man-god idol and you shall be saved. Remember blessed are those who believe without asking questions, be like a child and a blind Aaron and you shall be blessed and see the man-god. That’s all is required of you, don’t ask, don’t see, don’t hear, don’t think, just believe!
No doubt. The Messiah will save the remnant of Israel. Also He will establish His kingdom on Earth.
What do my readers think? What’s the most important thing of our temporal life?
Why no doubt? Because he said so? Unless Yeshua fulfilled something and proved himself to be a god, why should I believe so?
The Real: “Unless Yeshua fulfilled something and proved himself to be a god, why should I believe so?”
I try to clarify. The Messiah is the Messiah. He’s gotta do what He’s gotta do. No matter what we the people think or believe.
Anyway. What do you think is the most important thing in the world?
Didn’t Solomon answer that, and it has nothing to do with believing in the messiah! Also, the messiah is the messiah and he is an ACTUAL son of David and and ACTUAL king, not a fairy-tale messiah claimant who had to die for the sin of the world and spoke in parable to make sure nobody would understand that he is a god in the flesh, when it’s clear that G-d is ONE and is not a man! How deceitful is idol worship! Believe in G-d, believe also in the god-man messiah, who is also G-d, but prayed to G-d, one and three together. It’s like water… solid, liquid and gas, or maybe, soul body and spirit… OH, I see the mystery of the trinity everywhere!
Yurki, the bottom line is, you worship a false “god”, an idol of dead human flesh, a product of corrupt human imagination and deceit, and not the G-d of Israel. One day you and billions of others will discover just how wrong you had been and how perverted and ungodly the idea of the Christian flesh-god really is, how utterly repulsive it is to the true G-d.
The Real: “ACTUAL son of David and and ACTUAL king,”
I think, I really do, the image is worth watching:
To Gene. Why do I bless Israel? Because “I AM” is God. And He is God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Numbers 24:9 (CJB)
9 “When they lie down they crouch like a lion,
or like a lioness — who dares to rouse it?
Blessed be all who bless you!
Cursed be all who curse you!”
Blessings
Jyrki
Yurki, the more you avoid everything we say and post something random, the less anyone reading will take you seriously, the more you’ll prove us right, since you’re admitting by this that you have no answer, to backing up of your views from Tanakh.
The Real: “Didn’t Solomon answer that, and it has nothing to do with believing in the messiah!”
Solomon said a lot but he, as I understand, worshiped “baalim”. Please would you clarify? What is the meaning of life?
To Aaron. I was an atheist because the secular world made me one. Then God called me by giving me a crisis. I opened my Bible. I read about Gideon and I realized that God was Almighty. Later I read a about a crisis of Israel. I saw that nobody would survive without God.
– Sh’mu’el took a baby lamb and offered it as a whole burnt offering to Adonai. Then Sh’mu’el cried to Adonai for Isra’el, and Adonai answered him.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Samuel+7&version=CJB
Simply. I trust in God.
That’s the whole story. Here now is my final conclusion: Fear God and obey his commands, for this is everyone’s duty.
“Simply. I trust in God.”, no you don’t! You trust in a man, unless you can prove that Jesus was a god, then you trust in a man. Samuel offered a lamb, a clean animal. Jesus, a human, was NOT a clean animal. Any dead human is an abomination to G-d. Any sacrifice outside the temple is an abomination to G-d. Any unclean animal offered as a sacrifice was an abomination to G-d. Any sacrifice done in a way that is NOT prescribed in the Torah is an abomination to G-d. Any sacrificed offered by someone else than a Kohen is an abomination to G-d.
Any reason why I should trust in that abomination?
Shalom Aaron, Gene and The Real. I can’t deny my Savior. The Passover predicted the most important sacrifice. No bones broken.
– It is to be eaten in one house. You are not to take any of the meat outside the house, and you are not to break any of its bones.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+12&version=CJB
I care about Israel. I pray for her. I trust in God. I know He will open His people’s eyes.
– What is more, their minds were made stonelike; for to this day the same veil remains over them when they read the Old Covenant;
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+3&version=CJB
– For instance… the Hebrew word “SHALOM” has little in common with its English translation of “PEACE.” SHALOM does not have the passive, even negative connotation of the word “peace.” Shalom does not mean merely the absence of strife… It is pregnant with positive, active and energetic meaning and association. Shalom… connotes “totality,” “health,” “wholesomeness,” “harmony,” “balance,” “success,” “the completeness and richness of living.” When Jewish people meet or part and say their goodbye, they wish each other “Shalom!”… or they inquire about each other’s “SHALOM!”
http://www.pray4zion.org/HebrewtheLanuguageofCreation.html
Blessings
Jyrki
Yurki… Now you are rambling.
Rambling? I hope not. I think I have no time to ramble. Saul/Paul has his say.
– Some, by aiming amiss, have wandered off into fruitless discussion.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+1&version=CJB
Please try to understand. I’m a simple man. I hope God keeps me that way.
Matthew 19:14 (CJB) However, Yeshua said, “Let the children come to me, don’t stop them, for the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these.”
Yurki, you are worshiping an idol, sinning again your Maker. No amount of web links and quotes from NT will change this fact until you repent and ask G-d to forgive you your sin of idolatry. Neither Jesus nor any other creature will be of any help to your when you stand one day before the G-d of Israel and have to answer why you worshiped a non-god and why you even tried to sway Jews to follow after your idol.
Did you eat your idol roasted over the fire? Why should no bone be broken, but the rest does not matter! That’s hypocrisy at the least!
Gene / Aaron, by the way, my wife is not sure about Jesus anymore, she is just plain confuse… A good step in the good direction, but I don’t think should would accept Judaism.
Real: “Why should no bone be broken,”
Please have mercy on me. I’m just a simple man. I try to use my PC and learn.
http://www.thankgodforjesus.org/meanings-why-jesus-bones-could-not-be-broken/
Was Jesus 1 year old? NO, then not the passover lamb! By the way, in the Torah, male lamb are not used for sin sacrifice, not even once! Good luck trusting in your male lamb of 33 year old!
I think the salvation is the most important thing. The meaning of life is to get saved. What can man do? I guess nothing. Hashem is sovereign. He decides.
Shemot 33:19 (OJB) And He said, I will make kol tuvi (all My goodness) pass in front of thee, and I will call out with the Shem of Hashem before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show rachamim on whom I will show rachamim.
Blessings
Jyrki
The meaning of life is to get saved? Really? This is very human centered and thus very un-biblical. The meaning of life is to know the true G-d and to love Him with all our hearts. If you do that, you will not need to worry about any “salvation”. Where does it say in the Hebrew Bible that “salvation is the most important thing”? It doesn’t.
“Salvation” in the Hebrew Bible always refers about the salvation against an enemy. God does not save us from himself!
You don’t trust God if you think God is two, or a man, etc. This is called denial and idolatry, not belief, faith, or trust. God is also not a lamb, nor was, to make a big distinction, Yeshu, your man-god idol.
Thanks for your comments. I try to be more precise.
I believe. I’m saved. I’m immortal.
Then, the fact that you believe in Yeshua is self-centered! You believe in Yeshua, not because you want to worship G-d for the unique purpose of worshipping Him, but because you want to be saved and avoid hell! This, in and out of itself, is self-serving, and a selfish motive to worship G-d (at least the one you think is G-d).
“I believe. I’m saved. I’m immortal.”
I, I, I….
No worry Gene. Abba gave me my life back. I was one of His lost sons.
“No worry Gene. Abba gave me my life back. I was one of His lost sons.”
Yurki… if you feel that “Abba” gave you your life back, that’s good, but don’t credit an idol, a dead guy Jesus, with it. Because if you do and if you wish to continue worshiping an idol and insist on persisting in your idolatry, perhaps you are still very much lost.
Thanks for your reply Gene. I’m honest. The Creator made me to trust in Him. His word made me alive and His word keeps me alive.
Romans 10:17 (KJV) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
.. whether or not you would keep his commands,… and not commit idolatry with a foreign god, a god that Israel forefather did not know. Did Peter’s father knew Jesus? No, then we can cross him as unacceptable worship!
Thanks Real. You have your point. Peter is not the Foundation.
– Some foolishly claim that the Church is representative of Christ, and that we should obey the church in order to follow Christ; however, no such demonic doctrine is found in the Bible. Jesus Christ is the ONLY foundation, the ONLY way to God the Father, and thus; is the ONLY One we should follow.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/peter_not_foundation.htm
– You’d think that if Roman Catholics were going to follow Peter, they’d be interested in what he actually said, but I find this is not the case. Let me give you an example. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, #552 says, “Because of the faith he confessed, Peter will remain the unshakeable rock of the Church.” However, Peter writes in his letters that Jesus is the “rock” which the builders “disallowed” — not he! Listen carefully to Peter’s own words:
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n2042.cfm
Blessings
Jyrki
Jyrki, you totally misunderstood what I said!
They sacrificed unto demons, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came in of late, whom your fathers feared not. Deut 32:17
Then the LORD will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. There you will worship other gods–gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your ancestors have known. Deut 28:64
Did Peter’s father or grand-father worshipped Jesus? NO, they did not FEAR Jesus, so we can conclude that Peter worshipped a new god, a god that is not a true G-d!
Thanks Real. What about Abraham?
– Was he a believer?
– Is he alive?
yurki1000,
Avraham started the family line of Israel, God’s chosen people. He rejected the worship of anything other than the One Creator. Thus, Avraham is a believer and he is saved. Those who believe in another, who worship another as god, like how you worship your man-god idol – are not believers and not saved.
Thanks Aaron. Then who are or will be the children of Abraham and why?
“Thanks Aaron. Then who are or will be the children of Abraham and why?”
Yurki… what does the Bible say?
“But G-d said to Abraham, “Do not be distressed because of the lad and your maid; whatever Sarah tells you, listen to her, for through Isaac your descendants shall be named.”
As we know, Abraham had other children before and after Isaac, but the “legal” descendants or children of Abraham are Jews and Jews alone.
I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham believed in the only begotten of the father who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Sorry… wrong translation :)
because Abraham believed in faith alone, not be work, lest any should boast!
Oups, wrong translation again…
because Abraham obeyed me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions.”
yurki1000, what excuse have you, now?
I think Abe was/is a Believer because God circumcised his heart. I believe that every person with circumcised heart is Abe’s child.
yes… sure!
The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love HIM with all your heart and with all your soul, and live
And those who love HIM like that, don’t commit idolatry with a foreign god like Yeshu!
I see Israel is still like Hosea’s wife Gomer. When will this happen?
– The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love HIM with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.
And of course,… all christians have circumcised heart, follow jesus with all their soul, have the Holy Spirit to teach them the “true” doctrine. None argue and all are perfect, compare to Israel, who has not a circumcised heart. And when they accept Jesus, they will really follow god just like the perfect Christians do!… gattcha!
I see God gave Israel a mission. What is it?
“I see God gave Israel a mission. What is it?”
To love Him and to obey Him with all of their heart.
yurki1000, all you do is quote things that don’t hold up or are not at all what you claim them to be, and you don’t answer questions, but only ask some that are easily answerable. You cannot say where worship of a man or God becoming a man is spoken of in Tanakh. Because you can’t – it’s nowhere, and in fact, the opposite is written in Tanakh.
Gene: “To love Him and to obey Him with all of their heart.”
OK. But how and when, if ever, shall Israel spread the Good News to the world?
What “good news”? You have been reading NT too much.
To Aaron. There is no temple. How can anybody get saved?
To Gene.
– How can anybody get to know God in this fallen world?
– Can God save people if there is no temple? How?
Read Ezekiel 19! Ezekiel did not have any temple either. Daniel was found righteous without temple and without your “messiah”. Your tale does not add up to scriptures Yurki!
“To Gene.
– How can anybody get to know God in this fallen world?
– Can God save people if there is no temple? How?”
Most people in the world today have access to information about the G-d of Israel, one way or another. Even back in the Roman times, many Gentiles were interested in the teachings of the Jews. The problem is that soon thereafter, Gentiles took Jewish scriptures and teachings, twisted and perverted them, creating their own religions.
“Can God save people if there is no temple? How?”
Temple never saved anyone and G-d doesn’t need it. You are confusing Judaism with nonsense in the NT about Jesus being “the temple”. When you read the Hebrew Bible it’s there for all to see that G-d had declared various people righteous both before the Temple stood and during periods when the Temple was destroyed or not operational.
Thanks Gene. I see 144.000 of the 12 tribes shall spread the Word to the world. Check Daniel’s 70th week.
To Gene. I see:
– No-one can be ritually pure without the temple and red heifer(s).
– God saved Abram before his circumcision.
– The first saved person was a Gentile.
Yurki… you are confusing your religion’s book of Revelation with the Hebrew Bible.
The Real: “Read Ezekiel 19! Ezekiel did not have any temple either. Daniel was found righteous without temple and without your “messiah”. Your tale does not add up to scriptures Yurki!”
Thanks Real. Who do need 613 Mosaic Laws and why?
I’d like to keep it in the core. Why will the temple be built if people can be saved without it?
Not all laws are fore everybody. Some are for women, some for men, some for priest, some for Jews and some for everybody…. Nobody does keep the 613 laws, and not all law that are broken deserve death.
“Why will the temple be built if people can be saved without it?”
The Temple is merely a central meeting place between people (corporately) and G-d. However, to use the Temple and to come into that holy place before G-d, people must be ritually cleansed from things that defile them (unclean things and various sins) and they must come appropriately prepared (washings, sacrifices, gifts etc). Bringing a sacrifice doesn’t forgive any sins. Repentance alone forgives sins and always had, and sacrifices – which are required only when the Temple stands – only serve to physically confirm and seal the spiritual act.
Thanks Gene. We all know that no man can fulfill the law. We all need God’s mercy. I see God owns everything and He operates everything.
– For to Moshe he says, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will pity whom I pity.” Thus it doesn’t depend on human desires or efforts, but on God, who has mercy. For the Tanakh says to Pharaoh, “It is for this very reason that I raised you up, so that in connection with you I might demonstrate my power, so that my name might be known throughout the world.” So then, he has mercy on whom he wants, and he hardens whom he wants.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+9&version=CJB
Nobody needs to fulfil the law. Your god is an unmerciful god who will throw people in hell just because they don’t accept your idol Jesus!
Israel served the Lord all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders who outlived Joshua, who had known all the works of the Lord which He had done for Israel. Joshua 24
OK Real. The thing is spiritual. I see Abe’s children are his children spiritually.
Romans 2:28-29 (CJB) For the real Jew is not merely Jewish outwardly: true circumcision is not only external and physical. On the contrary, the real Jew is one inwardly; and true circumcision is of the heart, spiritual not literal; so that his praise comes not from other people but from God.
THE (NEAR) FUTURE
Jeremiah 9:24-25 (CJB)
24 (25) “The days are coming,” says Adonai, “when I will punish all those who have been circumcised in their uncircumcision — 25 (26) Egypt, Y’hudah, Edom, the people of ‘Amon and Mo’av, and all those living in the desert who cut the edges [of their beard]:
“For although all the Goyim are uncircumcised,
all the house of Isra’el have uncircumcised hearts.”
Jeremiah 4:1-2 (CJB) “Isra’el, if you will return,” says Adonai, “yes, return to me; and if you will banish your abominations from my presence without wandering astray again; and if you will swear, ‘As Adonai lives,’ in truth, justice and righteousness; then the nations will bless themselves by him, and in him will they glory.”
I see Israel still worships “baalim” and God will torment her. After that the remnant of Israel will call her King “hosanna” and the world peace will be established. I bless Israel. If nations blessed Israel there would be peace.
Bamidbar 24:9 (OJB) He crouched, he lay down as an ari, and as the lioness; who shall stir him up? Mevarakhecha is he that makes a barucha on thee, and cursed is he that curseth thee.
Please have mercy on me. I may proceed hastily but I believe there is not much time. Balaam blessed Israel. He saw a cross (from 7:21).
Blessings
Jyrki
Any scripture that you could use to prove that we should worship your “king” who never was a ruler and was NOT from the line of David as per the 2 genealogies of the Non-Testament?
OK Real. Still I believe there is not much time. I see the bride will be taken away before “the modern day flood”.
“THE TIMING OF THE PRETRIBULATION RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH AS FOUND IN THE SONG OF SOLOMON”
– Another great Old Testament type in the Bible is found in Genesis. The Bible tells us of a man called Enoch, a gentile who was the great grandfather to Noah. Enoch lived for 365 years, which just coincidentally matches the 365 days of the gentile calendar (the Hebrew calendar has 360 days). The Bible says that Enoch began walking with God after the birth of his son Methuselah, the oldest living man in the Bible. And then something amazing happened, here it is:
“And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.” Genesis 5:22-24 (KJV)
See what we have here? It’s a type picture of the Rapture of the Church. Enoch was a gentile believer in God, had fellowship with Him and ‘walked with Him’. Then, at some point in that walk, God took him home to Heaven literally and physically without ever having to die first. But that’s not all. Enoch’s rapture happens shortly before the tribulation of the flood of Noah destroys the Earth. Do you get that? Enoch is raptured out before the flood which destroyed the world. The apostle Paul teaches in the New Testament that the Church will be raptured out before the time of Jacob’s trouble which will cause global death, misery and destruction.
http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/the-timing-of-the-pretribulation-rapture-of-the-church-as-found-in-the-song-of-solomon/
Types and Shadows… do you have anything concrete. It’s a serious matter, and parallels are not enough to go full-blown idolatry! I want evidence, the new testament writer could have just use Enoch story for his own purpose. And again, the rapture has not come to pass yet… until then, I will have to wait and see. When I see a few million people disappearing, then, maybe… Oh, wait, new ages have other explanation, I might still be deceive to believe them, or maybe you will be taken away by UFOs. Mmm, on second thought, maybe Jesus is an alien…
yurki1000, I’ve explained how someone’s sins are atoned for MANY times, and it’s all right there in the Tanakh. Let’s start with the simple fact that God’s Word says charity atones. Fasting on Yom Kipur atones. Fasting in general atones. Correcting your sins or bad traits atones. I assume “being saved” means atonement to you.
yurki1000, I’m glad you’re finally admitting you don’t know anything of the Tanakh, and are asking those of us who know.
Yes Aaron. Tanakh is OK.
The World Today
The Devil is behind all evil. He is behind Rome/Vatican. He is behind Koran/Islam.
https://www.google.fi/#q=jesuits+created+islam
“Al-Aqsa Mosque preacher: Jews will worship the Devil and then be exterminated by Muslims”
We all see we are in the end times. The Rapture is near. The Great Tribulation is near. The Kingdom of God is Near. May God have mercy on us.
Satan is good yurki… prove me he is bad from the Tanakh!
Lol, Remi, he can’t even do that. Don’t demand such difficulty tasks of him.
I think Lucifer is no good.
Read this Yurki, because talking of the morning start (lucifer or Jesus)?!
http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2005/11nov/lucifer.html
Real: “Read this Yurki, because talking of the morning start (lucifer or Jesus)?!”
Thanks Real. I’ll take my time. But who is real Satan?
– Now there was a yom when the Bnei HaElohim came to present themselves before Hashem, and Hasatan came also among them.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+1&version=OJB
Yes, on Job’s account, you see a angel, who acts as an adversary (satan) to a man named Job. That angel obey G-d in everything… thus, there is no reason to think it is an unrighteous angel!
Yes Real. God is Almighty. Do you think there are fallen angels?
What do my readers think?
– What’s the origin of evil/evilness?
– Shall evil ever end? How?
– What are demons?
– Why do demons posses people (and animals)?
The word “sattan” in Hebrew means adversary (I spell with two ‘t’s because the letter ט is a saturated t with no parallel sound in English). It could mean anyone who opposes something. The verb lahasttin להשטין, means to sattan, to oppose. There is another word for opposing as well, but this one means perhaps a more serious opposition, not simply to be against, which is what lahithnajedh להתנגד means, from נדג, against.
To say sattan never means The Sattan (The Adversary) is wrong. The yesser hara`, the evil inclination, is a constant adversary – however, what the Christians say about it being a separate force outside of God’s control is all wrong. Everything is under God’s control. That’s why Elohim means Supreme Power/Authority, which is what HaShem, God, is. Elohim also can mean judges (authorities) and more, which it sometimes does in Tanakh, because it means judges, authorities, gods, or God. This is another reason why you need the Sages and the oral Torah – because without the explanation, you won’t always know what these words refer to in their different appearances in Tanakh.
Also, on the article the, which is the prefix “ha-” in Hebrew, it makes the word refer to something known and specific. If it says “the sattan”, the adversary, it’s speaking of The Sattan, that’s why in Hebrew, we say “The Sattan”, not usually just “Sattan” like how the Christians say “Satan”. Also, in Isaiah 7, it says “the `alma”, the young woman. Not “an `alma”, a young woman. That’s because it was referring to Isaiah’s wife who gave birth to `Immanu’el and Maher-shallal-hhash-baz, to two children spoken of in Isaiah 7 and 8. And I know this because in Isaiah 8, Isaiah says these two children were born to his wife! That’s one the Christians went REALLY OFF on – they can’t even read context, nor do they usually have any knowledge of Hebrew at all. A hilarious Christian mistake, there.
Great explanation, Aaron.
Aaron: “Everything is under God’s control.”
We say:
[videos deleted by admin]
[Admin: Yurki… if you have something to say because you know something about it, say it, instead of posting links to a bunch of YouTube videos.]
To the world. I trust in God because He made me one of His children. There are two Messiahs. One came in His Father’s name. The other will come in his own name. One is real. The other is false.
I see: The man-made temple will be built for the false Messiah.
John 5:43 “I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.”
Yurki…. Jewish temples are built for G-d, not for messiahs. However, you are setting yourself up for failure – when the true Jewish king is revealed and in place over Israel, you and other Christians will reject the G-d’s true anointed ruler because he won’t be the idol, that false man-god that you are expecting to descend in the cloud from above to rapture you and your coreligionists.
Thanks for your reply Gene. You are honest. I’m honest. God made everything. He owns everything. He knows everything. He controls everything. His timetable stands. We are in the end times. The peace comes soon. Grace to God Almighty.
Still yurki, you have given 0 reasons for us to believe that your messiah is the true messiah. You believe because you believe, because ” He made me one of His children.”, and why do you arrive to that conclusion? Because the new testament say so. And you believe the new testament to be true because, or, you prayed and accepted Jesus in your heart, or, because you were raised in a christian family and the new testament forbids you to ever check if the claims are true!
You have tried to preach us, but, you have zero arguments from the Hebrew Bible in your favour. As Jesus said “A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.” So we have to just believe and accept the he is a man-god, even if it contradict the whole Jewish Bible! That makes really little sense. I have my own theory, the new testament was used by Rome to have a unify religion and they wanted to Jews in the bandwagon. They just thought that they would buy it like the rest of the world. Unfortunately for them, it did not work, and that’s why they have been persecuting them ever since.
Thanks for your comment Real. I don’t trust in any church or religion. The Creator is my Savior. I call Him “Abba”. That’s my testimony. I can speak but I can’t turn anybody. Turning is God’s job. I am free. My Father took my burden away.
Blessings
Jyrki
You still gives us no reasons! You say “Abba” made you turn. Muslims who are ready to blow themselves up are also sure they have the “truth”. Why do you trust the New Testament as authoritative? You got to have a least one reason! As you say, you are free, but if Jesus is a false god, an idol, you are not free at all, you are still a full-blown idolater!
Peace. I bless Israel. The World Peace comes via Israel. Israel may decrease but she won’t perish.
Yirmeyah 46:28 (OJB) Fear thou not, O Ya’akov Avdi, saith Hashem; for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of kol HaGoyim where I have scattered thee; but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee with mishpat (justice); yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished.
Yurki … that’s one strange non-answer you gave.
It’s always a non-answer. What’s new?
Yurki, please, cut the cackle and tell me why Jesus is the messiah. Your view of Israel has nothing to do with the fact that you hold the true religion. Once, I saw a post on facebook saying “Muslims for Israel”, No Kidding!
“No kidding.” That’s how things are in the fallen world. Must realize that the state of Israel is still secular. Will it ever change? Yes it will. When? You know. Tell me.
Real. Did you see this? My PC says it’s awaiting moderation.
When Israel will say “Look, blessed is he who comes in the name of the lord”. It’s A Bird… It’s A Plane… It’s Super Jesus, coming on the cloud of heaven, bouncing one by one! I can’t have a serious discussion, can’t I?
Real. Let’s be serious. Practically Jacob’s descendants worship baalim. Something should happen before the things get better. I suppose you know. The OT is quite informative.
– Yahweh’s plan stands firm forever. His thoughts stand firm in every generation.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+33&version=NOG
– The anger of Yahweh will not turn back until he has done everything he intends to do. In the last days you will understand this clearly.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah+23&version=NOG
– You have done many miraculous things, O Yahweh my Elohim. You have made many wonderful plans for us. No one compares to you! I will tell others about your miracles, which are more than I can count.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+40&version=NOG
Sorry Real. My comments don’t show.
Why Jesus is real Messiah? Because He came in His Father’s name. He does not need man-made temples. God/Father does not need man-made temples. The false messiah needs a man made temple. He enters the temple in the middle of the “70th week” and triggers the events that make the remnant of Israel call her King “Yasha Na!”. Then the world peace may start.
> Under “salvation” we found Yasha in the following texts:
“Behold, Yah has proclaimed to the end of the world, ‘Say to the daughter of Zion, Behold, your Salvation comes; behold, His reward is with Him, and His work before Him.” Isaiah 62:11;
“Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, your King comes to you: He is the Just One, Salvation; lowly, and riding upon a donkey, and upon a colt the foal of a donkey.” Zechariah 9:9.
Blessings
Jyrki
Yurki, Jacob’s descendants worshiped God according to the Torah, and there were always righteous Israelites, Jews, descendants of Jacob throughout their whole history, even when many of the people turned to idol worship (the same as worshiping Jesus and believing Jesus is a god – this is complete idolatry).
The practical and spiritual traditions of the Torah were relayed from Moses throughout the prophets and righteous kings of Israel, unto `Ezra who was endorsed by the final three prophets of Tanakh (the Hebrew Bible), Malachi, Haggai, and Zechariah. The next phase was the Rabbinic phase, where the Sages, the Rabbis received the tradition from the prophets – this was done by God through Ezra. Each of the Sages of the Talmuds were able to resurrect the dead and perform great miracles. They weren’t exactly short of being prophets, for like Daniel and David, among many others, who were not considered outright prophets, they possessed the prophetic influx of Ruahh HaKodesh, “Holy Spirit”, Divine Inspiration.
Whether the common folk turned to idolatry or sinning at various points in history means nothing as to the authenticity of the people of Israel, the chosenness, if you will, of the Jewish people. God Himself says He will never forsake His people.
Christianity and Islam are two big world religions that claim to be the “real Israel”, the “real Jews”, they each preach replacement theology. The Christians consider the Tanakh God’s word (even though they consider it inferior to their idolatrous and erroneous writings called the “New Testament”). Muslims see it a different way. Both religions, Christianity and Islam, are counterfeits of Judaism, of the religion of the Torah. And it is very obvious.
The true path has never been lost.
Oh, and you have offered no proof of your Jesus being the messiah and/or god within the Tanakh – at all. You’ve said nothing, and have only dodged the question and responded with other nonsense that isn’t related to the topic. You keep showing yourself to be a fool, and an emotional one, talking about “love” and “feelings” you have and sentiments that don’t mean anything. You dodge the questions because you have nothing to respond with – which is blatantly obvious.
I’m not upset at this, because you’re doing us a huge favor. You are not unlike many Christians and Messianics, and you are showing all those reading this that you have no argument to offer at all. Those who are Christian/Messianic, or those who are unsure, will realize that WE have answers and our questions go unanswered. They’ll see that we obviously know what we’re talking about, and that idolatry, man worship, or claiming a man is god is found NOWHERE in Torah.
You’re doing us a huge favor by your dodging any real argument and having nothing to respond with.
Aaron: “Whether the common folk turned to idolatry or sinning at various points in history means nothing as to the authenticity of the people of Israel, the chosenness, if you will, of the Jewish people. God Himself says He will never forsake His people.”
I agree with all my heart. I’m not with the replacement theology. If you read me you find out that God will marry His Israel-wife and bring the peace to the world.
Besides. I can’t fully express myself because pieces of my information don’t show.
“I agree with all my heart. I’m not with the replacement theology. If you read me you find out that God will marry His Israel-wife and bring the peace to the world.”
An Israel who will fully believe in Jesus, worship Jesus, bow to Jesus, kiss Jesus and say “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the lord”. Regardless, that Israel is not the true Israel! Right now, as per your belief, all Jews who do not accept Jesus go to HELL forever and ever. This it the same for all generation of pious Jews who refused, REFUSED to bow to Jesus because they did not want to break their covenant with G-d!
Remember, “Kiss the cross, or kiss the sword”. As per your belief, those who did not want to deny the true G-d of Israel, YHVH, are actually in hell right now, and for the rest of eternity! Does that make sense Yurki? And you say that G-d did not replace Israel? Who cares, you pray every single day for them to accept your man-god as the true G-d of Israel. All the money that you give goes to evangelise Israel; for them to accept their “messiah”. If you are wrong, and you don’t show any reason why you could be right, then you are in OPPOSITION with Israel and the true religion! True, you don’t blow yourself up like the Muslims, but you are using a different tactic to eliminate Israel…
Peace Real. No worry. God is the Judge. Please don’t put words in my mouth.
IMPORTANT
People are sinners. We are dead. How can we become alive again?
Peace Real. No worry. God is the Judge. Please don’t put words in my mouth. Important: People are sinners. Sinners are dead. How can we become alive again?
Yurki, if you believe in the Nude Testament, you must believe anyone who doesn’t ‘believe’ in Jesus is going to hell. By concealing your beliefs and avoiding any and all explanation of anything – you’re still doing us a favor.
Yurki, I’ve been learning Ezekiel with some of the commentaries, and I’ve come to these verses today in chapter 18. This is speaking to the people of Israel regarding the current trend of idolatry in those days before the 70 year exile to Babylon. The Prophet tells us who will live, who will be saved. Pay close attention. My additions are in parentheses:
“5So a man who is righteous and practices justice and righteousness,
6And does not eat [offerings to idols] on the mountains (the prohibition against sacrificing to idolatry and benefiting from food used in idolatrous rituals – prohibitions from the Torah), and does not lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel; neither defiles his fellow man’s wife (a mitzva in the Torah against idolatry) nor approaches a woman in her period of separation (during menstruation and before she waits the proper amount of time and then immerses in the mikva to become pure: this is a mitzva in the Torah)
7And wrongs no man (in the following ways); what has been pledged for a debt he returns; [he] has committed no robbery, gives his bread to the hungry, and clothes the naked with garments,
8Does not lend on interest (it’s forbidden for a Jew to take interest from another Jew according to Torah), nor does he take any increase on a loan, keeps his hand back from wrong, executes true judgment between man and man,
9Has walked in My statutes (Torah, mitzvot), and has kept My ordinances (Torah, mitzvot) to deal truly-*he is a righteous man*; *he shall surely live*, says the Lord God.”
The verses go on and on, and the Prophet Ezekiel makes it very clear in this prophecy from God Himself: that the Jew who acts righteously according to the Torah’s laws LIVES and is RIGHTEOUS. His righteousness is in God, in God’s Law, the Torah, and he does the rules of this Law with faith in God and love and fear towards God. This is who is righteous, and this person himself saves his own soul through his CHOICE on what to do, how to act, whether to follow God or not.
The Prophet goes on in this chapter and tells us that the person who repents of his sin, turning from it and changing his actions towards the Torah, he saves his soul:
“21And if the wicked man repent of all his sins that he has committed and keeps all My laws and executes justice and righteousness, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22All his transgressions that he has committed shall not be remembered regarding him: through his righteousness that he has done he shall live.
27And when a wicked man repents of his wickedness that he has done, and does justice and righteousness, he will keep his soul alive.
28He will see and repent of all his transgressions that he has committed-he shall surely live; he shall not die.”
And likewise, if someone who did good now becomes wicked according to God’s standard, the Torah, he is throwing his soul away, he will not live eternal life unless he repents and changes his actions:
“24And when the righteous repents of his righteousness and does wrong and does like all the abominations that the wicked man did, shall he live? All his righteous deeds that he has done shall not be remembered; in his treachery that he has perpetrated and in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die.”
Face it, Yurki, your religion has nothing to do with the real Bible, the Hebrew Bible. It is opposed by the words of God’s true Prophets. Following a false messiah and false prophet who said he was god and the son of god is the OPPOSITE – in fact, it is even idolatry. It would be enough to believe in a false prophet who would lead your soul to hell, as Jesus is, but it is even worse to make him into an idol, to pray to him, to worship him as a god.
Thanks Aaron. I agree. God/Abba is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I see: Bar Abbas did not undo the law but fulfilled it. Grace to God Almighty.
Thanks Aaron. I agree. God/Abba is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I see: Bar Abbas did not undo the law but fulfilled it. Grace to God Almighty.
Abba’s children have important job to do.
– I am sending you to Israel. I am not sending you to nations whose language is hard to understand, difficult to speak, or whose words you cannot understand. If I send you to those nations, they will certainly listen to you. But the people of Israel will refuse to listen to you because they refuse to listen to me. All the people of Israel are very stubborn and hardheaded. Yet, I will make you as stubborn and as hardheaded as they are. I will make you as hard as a diamond, harder than stone. Don’t be afraid of them. Don’t be terrified in their presence, even though they are rebellious people.”
– “Son of man, I have made you a watchman over the people of Israel. Listen to what I say, and warn them for me. Suppose I tell you that wicked people will surely die, but you don’t warn them or speak out so that they can change their wicked ways in order to save their lives. Then these wicked people will die because of their sin, but I will hold you responsible for their deaths. But suppose you warn the wicked people, and they don’t turn from their wicked ways. Then they will die because of their sin, but you will save yourself.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+3&version=NOG
Blessings
Jyrki
Son of man, ironically, means human being in Hebrew. It means flesh and blood. Why Ezekiel is often called son of man, human being, has a few reasons, but I just wanted to point out that the Christian usage of it is also way off because they don’t understand Hebrew.
Also, in case you’d like to slander the Jewish people and claim we are evil: let it be known that there are many books of prophecy written even by the same Prophets about blessing and prosperity for Israel, that never made it into the Tanakh. Why? Because the Sages who chose the books of Tanakh chose mainly the prophecies calling for repentance, because much can be learned there.
In Ezekiel 38-39, God speaks of how he will slaughter myriads of people among the nations for having persecuted and killed the Jews under exile. It is God’s personal revenge, known as the war of Gog and Magog. Nothing there mentioned about Jesus, nothing anywhere mentioned about Jesus, in fact, there is everything to do with God destroying Christian and Muslim nations who have mistreated God’s real people and claimed themselves superior.
You are all not superior. You are inferior. The coming redemption is for the Jewish people. God chose us. Instead of learning from us, being students of ours, like some of the nations will, as per Zechariah 8:22 – the nations have traditionally hated Jews and all things Jewish, and even claimed religious superiority. And Jesus is one of the main ways you have done this. Don’t get me wrong, though. By us, a righteous gentile is held in very high esteem. But a righteous gentile is one who adheres to the 7 Commandments of Noah, the first one of which is a prohibition against idolatry. That means Christianity is right out.
Aaron: “…there is everything to do with God destroying Christian and Muslim nations who have mistreated God’s real people and claimed themselves superior.”
Unfortunately there is no Christian nation in this world. Instead there are Muslim nations. Allah/Koran: “Kill a Jew on Sabbath and a Christian on Sunday. They are pigs and apes.” (My shortened version)
IMPORTANT
God’s children do not persecute Jews. They bless them. They understand that the salvation is from the Jews. Vatican and Rome are serpent’s residences. I hope you understand how the things are.
https://www.google.fi/#q=vatican+created+islam
Mattityahu 6:24 (OJB) No one is able to serve two adonim (masters). For either he will have sinah (hatred) for the one and ahavah (love) for the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve Hashem and Mammon (Money).
https://www.google.fi/#q=vatican+controls+the+world
Yurki…. was Martin Luther, the founding father of all Protestants and thus every Christian denomination since the Reformation, “G-d’s child”?
To Gene. As I know Luther tried to commit a cleansing. Since then there have been protestant churches. The best thing is that after the reformation the Bibles have been translated and given to the nations.
Deuteronomy 8:3 (NOG) So he made you suffer from hunger and then fed you with manna, which neither you nor your ancestors had seen before. He did this to teach you that a person cannot live on bread alone but on every word that Yahweh speaks.
“As I know Luther tried to commit a cleansing.”
Yeah, he certainly did try that, to cleanse the earth of Jews. If there’s hell, Luther is probably there.
After all. God is the Judge. He owns everything. He completes His project.
?
? Like there is the circumcision of 8 days old males there will be a new beginning when the 8th millennium starts.
ETERNITY
didn’t you know that Luther recommendations were “Sharp Mercy”! and he repented at the end of his life. Poor Luther!
Yurki, what are you even talking about anymore? Have you the ability to stay on topic or say anything relevant?
I think the future is relevant. Always. Don’t you wait for the eternal life? What may number 8 mean?
https://www.google.fi/#q=number+8+in+the+bible
“Sharp Mercy”
– At the beginning of his career, Martin Luther was apparently sympathetic to Jewish resistance to the Catholic Church. However, he expected the Jews to convert to his purified Christianity; when they did not, he turned violently against them.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Luther_on_Jews.html
Still. God is the Judge. I don’t trust in religions. Religions are the products of the fall of man. Peace comes when the dragon is chained.
– I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key to the bottomless pit and a large chain in his hand. He overpowered the serpent, that ancient snake, named Devil and Satan. The angel chained up the serpent for 1,000 years. He threw it into the bottomless pit. The angel shut and sealed the pit over the serpent to keep it from deceiving the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were over. After that it must be set free for a little while.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+20&version=NOG
This is 100% irrelevant! The new testament is not inspired and the book of revelation is a bunch of non-sense if Jesus is not the messiah! Can you please focus on the issue, unless you are incapable of having a normal discussion! It’s not too hard, you worship a man as G-d, where do you come to that conclusion from the Hebrew Bible that A) Jesus will be the messiah B) The messiah will be a god C) The messiah should be worship.
If you cannot find any good reason for these 3 idea from the Hebrew Bible, then it makes no sense to worship Jesus as god and messiah. If you don’t have any argument, and just want to throw Bible verses just so the holy spirit will reveal the truth from those random verses, then just let us know and we will cut the discussion short and not answer any of your non-sense anymore!
Random bible verse of the day… let the HS touch your heart!
Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.
http://www.sandersweb.net/bible/verse.php
Man! (Translation) Don’t give up Yurki, your random bible verse will one day work!
Why those random bible verses generator show the Non Testament 80% of the time and the Psalm 15%… That’s not how it should work! Darn bias christians!
You and Jews in general may not understand but I got my faith from the Holy Scriptures. Bar Abbas was loved by common people. He healed them. First disciples were Jews. Saul/Paul knew the OT. He persecuted those who were saved by Bar Abbas. Then he became God’s child himself.
Still. God is in charge. Thank God.
Blessings
Jyrki
You have no reason, no reason whatsoever to give us! Your faith is based on feeling! It’s as idiotic as a grown up believing in Santa and refusing all logical explanation. I need a child faith and I believe in Santa because he said I have to believe in the Spirit of Christmas! Please if you have something intelligent to say to show why Jesus is who he said he is, say it, if not, please don’t waste my time anymore!
Real. If you are ready…
https://www.google.fi/#q=333+prophecies
Yurki, if you are ready:
http://combatingmessianics.blogspot.com/2016/02/my-conversation-with-carlos-must-read.html
The link above includes the following verses and chapters of the Bible explained and clarified:
-Psalm 2
-Psalm 22
-Psalm 69
-Psalm 118
-Isaiah 6
-Isaiah 7-8
-Isaiah 52-53
-Isaiah 41:8
-Isaiah 49:3-4
-Daniel 9
-Zechariah 12:10
-Zechariah 13:6-7
-Zechariah 11:4-6,10-11
Thanks Aaron. I appreciate your effort. You are honest. I’m honest. And God is in charge of everything. I guess we can’t turn each other. But maybe we can think about possibilities. A man = spirit + soul + body (3 in 1). Why not God = Father + Son + Holy Ghost (3 in 1)?
What do my readers think? How near is Israel’s redemption? I ask because I believe there is not much time left. I think it might happen within 12 years.
– At that time I will bring you home. Yes, at that time I will gather you together. I will make you famous and praised among all the people of the earth when I restore your fortunes right before your eyes,” says Yahweh.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zephaniah+3&version=NOG
God bless you, your families and Israel.
“Hadassah Medical Convoy Massacre”
LYRICS
http://www.hebrewsongs.com/?song=shmaisraelshmaelohai
God is one (Deut. 6:4), not two or three. Nor does He have parts. God is not a man, nor a son of man (Num. 23:19). To further understand, you must realize that God, the Creator, is not the created, that would be a contradiction. God is beyond time, space, and matter, which are what all created objects in this universe have. The physical creation came about through God’s infinity being so-to-speak ‘constricted’, creating the ability for something finite to be created.
This finite things in the created universe are all bound by time, space, and matter, they all change throughout time/are subject to time, take up space, and have some substance of some kind. God is infinite and boundless, taking up all space yet no space at all, and having no form, mass, weight, body, etc – totally transcendent and beyond everything that we know in this physical universe.
If God were to “come into” creation in His inifinity, the world would not be able to contain Him. This is why Solomon marveled at how God’s *glory* (the Sekhina) could even rest in the Temple. Needless to say if God Himself manifested, the whole world would crash and burn into nothingness, because the finite cannot tolerate the infinite. The human mind cannot think of infinity, it cannot perceive it on any level. The human mind cannot perceive God, who is infinite. Therefore, the Hebrew Bible speaks figuratively about God, that He “turns His ear to hear”, etc, when in actuality, God has no body and no parts. The idea of a body, of parts, taking up a fixed space, being subject to time, to change, etc, is all phyiscal, these are all products of the created universe, none of them apply to God.
This is why God says “I do not change” (Malachi 3:6). If someone changes, it’s because he is subject to time. God is not. Any change we perceive (i.e. that God is acting in judgment one moment and in mercy another) is ALL only a difference in perception on our part, because HaShem is constant, unchanging, and infinite.
I hope you’re beginning to get it.
Thanks Aaron. Something to think about. When and how if ever did Israel evangelize the world? As I see Israel is or should be God’s congregation.
On the other hand. Israel (10 tribes) went to all directions and brought blessing to many nations.
Genesis 28:14 (NOG) Your descendants will be like the dust on the earth. You will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. Through you and through your descendant every family on earth will be blessed.
Jeremiah 29:7 (NOG) Work for the good of the city where I’ve taken you as captives, and pray to Yahweh for that city. When it prospers, you will also prosper.
Yurki, try again. That has nothing to do with what I just wrote. Here’s a hint: I’m not writing here for you. You can’t talk about anything to someone who won’t listen or take anything in at all, like you.
Aaron. Things are spiritual. Therefore there are numerous religions. Religions came from the Fall of Man. We can trust in the Bible (OT+NT) only.
Shortly. If Jesus didn’t give His spirit to His Father the world would still be under the law. If Jesus didn’t meet His friends after His death there wouldn’t be messengers.
– When Yeshua came near, he spoke to them. He said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+28&version=NOG
Isaiah 52:7 (NOG) How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of the messenger who announces the good news, “All is well.” He brings the good news, announces salvation, and tells Zion that its Elohim rules as king.
Blessings
Jyrki
Lol, Turki, try staying on topic for a single second, if you can.
I write a lot on a topic to breathe some life into your brainwashed mind. On how you cannot perceive of God, contain him, categorize him, etc. You reply, “things are spiritual”. Congratulations.
Simply I trust in God. I can’t change His plans.
[tons of links removed]
Aaron, the more you answer him, the more he feels he has a right to fill this blog with his garbage of Video and picutres! It’s really one “Preacher” like Kavi after another, they are just not willing to listen to anything we have to say, so I think we should not waste our time!
Yurki, please let us know right now if you want to have a proper conversation. A dialogue: “take part in a conversation or discussion to resolve a problem.”
If you are unwilling, please, get he heck out of here, we are not interested in your junk. If you want to talk, then read our comments and answer our comments and interact with us, if not,…
Thanks for your reply Real. I can’t fully express myself because some of my comments don’t show. Simply I trust in God’s Word.
[Lots of irrelevant pasted text deleted.]
Of course not, but any readers will see what I write. ;) That’s why I told Jerky that I’m not writing this for him.
“Here’s a hint: I’m not writing here for you.”
But seriously, as for how long these comments have gone on, I’m not sure who is reading anymore, lol.
You’re drifting again Yurki, we are talking about “Is Jesus the messiah?” Remember? I don’t care about end time eschatology, because most of it is based on your book of revelation. So, again, if you want to say something, stay on track!
To my readers. I’m not your enemy. I trust in God and His timetable. After all things are simple. Let’s be gracious :)
How do you know you have readers here Yurki?
Lol
Well… Perhaps it’s time say goodbye.
Gene. No good :(
Real: “You’re drifting again Yurki, we are talking about “Is Jesus the messiah?” Remember? I don’t care about end time eschatology, because most of it is based on your book of revelation. So, again, if you want to say something, stay on track!”
TNK+NT: “Bar Abbas = Messiah”
Finally everyone will know it. Everything is predicted.
Blessings
Jyrki
Beef Jyrki
Aaron. Please relax.
Me? Relax? Seems like you’re the one up tight with all your “important” videos! lol
Aaron. I know there are more than 7bn potential “importants”. So. Let’s relax. Paul advises us :)
– From the which things some have erred, and have turned unto vain jangling. They would be doctors of the Law, and yet understand not what they speak, neither whereof they affirm.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timotheus+1&version=GNV
Paul advises you, not me. Jesus is your idol, not mine.
Yes Aaron. As we know God will fulfill His plans. Everything has its time. In God we trust. As we see we are in the end times.
Amos 4:13 “For, lo, he that formeth the mountains, and createth the wind, and declareth unto man what is his thought, that maketh the morning darkness, and treadeth upon the high places of the earth, The LORD, The God of hosts, is his name.”
Revelation 17:17 “For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.”
Yurki… stare at it long enough and you will see your idol appearing!
LOL..